Recently I have been working on my shadow, and wearing the ugly mirror a lot.  I like the shadow work, it's really comforting to me to recognize that the scary shadow thoughts are okay to have, and now they don't scare me anymore.  I don't mind the ugly mirror either, because it teaches me so much.  Periodically I go back and review stuff in the course that I have missed, and in doing this recently I've realized that I am very far from actually falling in love with myself.  In fact. I don't even like myself and I see myself as having  a lot of negative qualities, worthless, a failure, made bad decisions, whatever.  I feel very critical of every little thing I do sometimes. 
I don't know how to even start to fall in love with myself.  So far, nothing I have tried helps.  During this K process, I have lost a lot of the surface things that defined me, and I like that, but on some level I feel I don't know who I am anymore now that some of the ego personality is gone.  I come from a very abusive family, and I am not sure if the negative thoughts about myself are coming from my Shadow, are my mother's voice, or are me torturing myself, or all of the above.  It feels impossible for me to even accept or forgive myself for anything.   Sometimes I even feel really awkward about the words I am saying.
I have considered, how does it serve me, or how does it serve my ego, to be like this?  Well it keeps me in a victim mode, in which I am victimizing myself by not loving myself.  Although I see that I am doing this, I don't know how to stop.  I have done years of psychotherapy and EMDR about this issue, with not a lot of results in terms of being able to love myself.  Affirmations haven't worked.   
Wearing the ugly mirror probably makes this worse, because I see some of the true motives behind my actions now and they aren't pretty.
Consciously, I can indentify a lot of "good" qualities about myself, but I feel like that's meaningless because the negative self esteem stuff is so pervasive and deep.
I don't know, maybe while I'm doing this ugly mirror work that's just how it's going to be, me feeling negative about the crappy stuff I do, but I have a feeling the issue for me is actually a much deeper one. 
I don't know how to start liking or accepting myself at all.  I seem unable to forgive myself for my mistakes.  Or to realize that there are no mistakes.  I have had a difficult life and I'm sure I could spend the rest of it beating myself up for my so called mistakes if I don't find a way to change this pattern.
Could I release these negative patterns through shadow work, I wonder, and if so how? 
I'd really appreciate to receive some suggestions, techniques, hear other people's experiences about this, because right now it feels like a wall I can't get over/around/through.....thank you....
namaste,
Jen

  If there were someone in your life whom you really loved, how would you treat them?  A child or a lover?

Would you cook for them? Massage and caress them? Write them love letters? Take them to Mexico?  Stand up for them?  Sew clothes for them? Give them vitamins?  Clean their house? Weed the garden?

  If you had a lover, how would you want your lover to express their love for you? Flowers and chocolate? Long walks by the sea? Diamonds? Letters and caresses?  Wash your dishes?

  To learn to love, you have to discover your love language. The expressions that you use to share love, that make you feel loved.  Then do them for yourself, because your body is a vessel of your Divine Beloved. Fake it till ya make it.

   I want you to play the detective game next time you come home. Instead of walking in and dropping your coat, whatever, pretend it is not your house and you are a detective sent to learn all you can about the person who lives there.  Look at everything from the art on the walls to the food in the fridge.  Not from a judgmental place, just, investigation. Just the facts, ma'am.  Take notes. When you are done your investigation leave the house and come back as yourself.

  Everybody, what makes you feel loved? How do you express your love for others?

  Blessings... 

Quote from: Mystress on Feb 08, 2008, 08:04:25 PM
   Everybody, what makes you feel loved? How do you express your love for others? 

I remember a couple years ago when this 'concept' of learning to love my self was presented to me and my lil brain had absolutely no idea what that even means.  Though I've made a lot of progress, it seems like this is something that will be keeping me occupied for a very long time.  It's worth the effort.

Mystress' suggestion about becoming the detective - IMO this is the most effective way to go about solving (big) issues.

I found this neat little thing at the craft store this week:  It's like a little stone 'memorial' that is engraved with the words - "Happiness Is Not A Destination, It Is A Method Of Life"   One could substitute the words  -  Loving One's Self Is Not A Destination, It Is A Method Of Life"  At least that's what I've decided for myself.

Most new methods take practice and persistence to master.  Put on gloves, boots, roll up sleeves and grab the shovel.  Don't forget to appreciate the exercise while digging.

To answer the question, "What makes me feel love and how do I express love to others?"   

For me, right now...where I'm at in my own personal process....  Expressing love to myself is honoring my needs, being very patient and curious about myself, and allowing myself to enjoy life in my own unique way.  How I express love to others - is the same of course.  Only outward.  But practice practice practice I must do!  It's not automatic all the time yet!

Lately, when I hit a bit of a speed bump, I've been saying to myself, "let go, let go, let go."  Of everything.  Sort of like life is a wheel with cogs and it's turning.  When I try to interfere with the process it's like I jam myself into one of the cogs and get whipped around and around till I get all foofy in the head.  So I just have to let go of the wheel and let it spin and just hang there...let go let go let go.  And then it's nice and quiet.

Blessings!
Eileen



 

Everybody, what makes you feel loved? How do you express your love for others?

I guess that being touched, expresses the key of it for me.
Feeling love, feeling touched, feeling resonance; understanding on a core level.
It's just like with gifts, they can turn you on or turn you down; or words spoken, they can light you up, or make a whole party vomit. The last statement points to the universality of love: that most things do not just turn on a single person; often groups are polarized in subgroups by what turns them on, which refers closely of 'who they think they are'(=ego).

Unexpectedness is also important, ha ha, imagine listening to the best joke ever from a person You'd never expected this from! Even though i don't know which joke, just the imagination is exhilarates me.
Love doesn't go well with expectations, oughts, shoulds, even gratitude.
Self-love won't work this way either; "One should expect that I love at least myself", is such a typical no go statement. Neither would i have to earn the privilege of loving myself, by the protestant success meme for example, whatever it may get me, surely not love. On the long run however succes will come by love.
Well, Self Love is already there, and it's in no way different from Love in general, which is just: feeling good, feeling right.
When the masks are falling, and people socialize again, talking to one another: "was I scary to You, ha ha, did my mask really chill You, looked quite real, eh?", and talk like this all night...discussing all the karma tricks and inventions, the creativity.
This would then also be a picture of love.
Adventure is love, too.

All of this i would like to get from others and pass it on to them. Make the world adventurous, instead of boring.

All this red hot kitchen deep blue ocean stuff, You know, that hits you right in the center.
That subtle glance into the camera, for a second's  tiniest fraction, as good actors can do, which you might not want to miss nor to endure, is also a form of love. Open for it and you'll be it.
(By the way gratulations, Mystress You've got it, too).
Love needs not to be perfekt on the outside, but there is a core of perfection, eh! and love is cool it may occur joint(some call it joint, right?) with a few puffs of  tobacco smoke
Yes heart beat is also part of it, and it seems more working, functional to me, than romantic.

 *Eileen*
One could substitute the words  -  Loving One's Self Is Not A Destination, It Is A Method Of Life"  At least that's what I've decided for myself.

Reading Your post again i feel struck how close this comes to my sidekick against Protestant predestination

(The first impression was just to be impressed )

Being touched....YES!!!  Reading this was very moving to me....caused me to think of all the many opportunities for the soul to be touched...by another, by a whisper, by a feather floating through the air...thank you.

  Excellent. Now remember, your body is not to blame for what your mind gets up to... it deserves to be touched and loved, it is a vessel of the Beloved.

 Ya know, the ugly mirror shows and triggers stuff to be surrendered. Using it to beat yourself up is just a way of holding onto it.  Just, stuff... observe it, it is self knowledge but try not to judge.

 As a teenager, I discovered that some people are very afraid of a telepath, because they have this idea that if anyone could see what goes on in their head they would loathe and reject them.

  Fact is, everybody gets stupid junk thoughts wandering by... Selfish thoughts, violent thoughts, jealous thoughts, critical judgemental thoughts, racist or prejudicial thoughts.  You are not your thoughts, they are just noise.

  I get some whoppers at times, but I accept and surrender them because I don't want to feed or manifest them.

  For example, I come from not-quite redneck white folks land. My catholic elementary school had one black kid, and the rest were all Caucasian. No Asians at all, not even any natives.  My formative years were completely devoid of any racial or cultural diversity aside from National Geographic, and I was never given a clue that was not normal.  Read a lot of Kipling, who is a fine storyteller but there is an awful lot of Victorian white conquerer noise, especially his stories of India.  The wolves are wiser and more honourable than the natives... Even Heinlein, has the white superiority thread running through many of his novels, especially his early boys stories. His "ethnic" characters are cardboard cutouts compared to the white hero.  He was a product of his time.

 My parents went on a Holland America cruise a few years ago.  My dad got home and had to tell everybody about how it was so funny that the Filipino bellboy looked just like an organ grinder's monkey.  Worse, he also told the bell boy.  He thought he was being friendly and funny, and would deny there was anything racist or insensitive...  Never noticed nobody else was laughing except my mom.   He is fine with gays getting married, so long as they call it something else because marriage is only for heterosexual people.  He thinks this is being progressive and open minded. He is 83, and still lives about a mile from the barn he was born in.  

   From that spawn, it is no surprise that I get some pretty stupid thoughts arising. I give my head a shake, laugh at myself for being an ignorant redneck peasant farm grrl with cowshit on her boots, like some hillbilly gal from a Lil' Abner cartoon... and then I surrender it all. I accept that is within me, so I can own it and surrender it.

 It is kind of like a mental judo act.  I don't resist the thoughts, I have to own them to surrender them.  I recognise where they come from, conditioning of a limited cultural heritage.  I balance by naming them for what they are,  turning them back onto myself as the inferior one then letting them go.  Wearing away at the cultural conditioning baggage.

  Everybody has some of that second chakra tribal junk.  "My tribe is better than your tribe because it is my tribe."  "Us and them" crap.  Deny stuff like that, it slips out. Own it, keep it front and center in your consciousness then it isn't shadow anymore, laugh at it, then it cannot get away with sneaky unconscious mischief.  

    Blessings...

Quote from: Mystress on Feb 14, 2008, 09:27:52 AM
     Fact is, everybody gets stupid junk thoughts wandering by... Selfish thoughts, violent thoughts, jealous thoughts, critical judgemental thoughts, racist or prejudicial thoughts.  You are not your thoughts, they are just noise.

   I get some whoppers at times, but I accept and surrender them because I don't want to feed or manifest them.

Thank you for saying this in these specific words.  Working through some fresh layers that are bubbling to the surface, and I've been a bit  by some of the thoughts that have popped up.  Noticing them immediately means they don't get fed, but your words are so relevant and comforting!
Eileen

   Oh yeah! As you get better at acceptance and surrender, you can handle more, so the stuff you get to see gets worse!! LOL! Scraping the bottom of the barrel... thoughts so absurd and awful that cracking up laughing is the only appropriate response.

  Then it gets  clearer, You are All that Is... so everybody has a little bit of Hitler and a little bit of Gandhi and a little bit of ... whom do you love and whom do you hate? You are that too.  When you are aware, you can make the free will choice: what to give energy to?  Am I going to be Buddha or Bush, today?  Where is the middle path?

   Blessings!!

Where is the middle path?

between ego and shadow, i' d say

de-mystify ego cult and de-condemn shadow prejudices,
halfway.

No heroic thing, at least not in the sense of what is usually understood by 'heroism'.

..But the growing Shadow Self arrives at supervising balance and wholeness more and more successfully and fruitfully.
Shadow Self, finally profiting from ego/karma undertakings, Portal Guardian nurtured by Karma.

Supervising teacher learning from Lord of the flies kids gang.

Teacher/Mom and kids merging into the ultimate Super-Guardian, how does Mystress put it: "For the benefit of All"(..to the harm of none). Wise conscience, wisdom.

mother and child reunion
lyrics

Moonbits..

reversi

Quote from: Mystress on Feb 15, 2008, 08:58:52 AM
  ...As you get better at acceptance and surrender, ... the stuff you get to see gets worse!! LOL! Scraping the bottom of the barrel... thoughts so absurd and awful that cracking up laughing is the only appropriate response. ... everybody has a little bit of Hitler and a little bit of Gandhi and a little bit of ... whom do you love and whom do you hate? 

Yes.  I suppose it's the awareness that is making it visible.  What I was sitting with yesterday on my way home from the office was the KINDS of thinking that occur.   There are the thoughts that form into words that we hear as chatter in our heads, and then there are the thoughts that just exist which have not formed into words.   And those seem to be really important, because to feed them causes them to form into words and they seem to have a bit more power to them when that happens. 

As I've gone along I've learned the 'frequency' (don't know how to describe it otherwise) of thought that becomes physically manifest.  Gaining the awareness (mentioned above) has, for me, meant gaining awareness about how to manipulate my reality and create what I want.  I don't mean that in a selfish way.  There's a lot of responsibility with that because selfish, greedy thoughts only create selfishness and greed in the environment.  To create a beautiful, joyful world I have to be that inside my self.  And that is exactly where this self-love is so critical.  I've learned to be patient and kind and forgiving to my self.  Forgiving my self has taken some persistent work.  The result is spontaneous forgiveness, kindness and patience with others.

Learning self-love to the depth of what is possible - I can see that as a very intricate process, but once you get the ball rolling, it's wonderful to be in it!  I'm just now understanding what it truly means to appreciate, value and see the need for the yucky in life.  What a beautiful walk that process is!  But of course getting into the lesson has meant, for me, taking a good look at these thoughts that have been bubbling up and exploring them.  If we really want to see, and learn, and love, it is given. 

It's worth the effort. 
Onward!
Eileen

Yes, i'm not free from that clutter either

It often arrives at me accompanied by sort of a jingle, like those many radio stations have one, for speedy recognition by their listeners; 'old faithful'-furnishings.

Typically these jingles are images or impressions of persons, who are likely to fall for all kinds of clutter: these may be parents, exie, Ben Cartwright, ge ex-chancelor Gerd Schroeder, more abstract impressions from media(kinda standard scenes); but there are also impressions associatiated with my person, impressions of  repeating schemes.
So i'm seeing a somewhat definite line between two ways of living: the way of liking clutter(often comes with racist attitudes in a very far sense, (so better don't content to turn away from racism in the narrowed sense! it will not suffice.). ..And the other way, part of this path: to stay away from it.

Nip it in the bud, by surrender

And this said i find, i need to precaution myself against pride; because there comes a sense of 'lonely at the top'- awareness.
Finding need and appreciation for the gift of humility.
Gaining breath again when lumps of judgementalism become dashed.
Words of beauty and gratitude coming to the mind, like Pharoah(big vessel)..
Thank You!

Eileen
then there are the thoughts that just exist which have not formed into words

I want to emphasize here the word: 'exist', momentarily.

Because, i find it to be a big trap (which i don't associate with You here, but in general it's a serious trap).

The ways that 'existance' has taken, in everyday life with all the hell and the blessings of karma, is one thing.
But as far as we have decided to go, it's not ours anymore and has become to real evil, real poison now, so we haven't really another choice anymore, but to stay away.

Commonly, in a world shaped by the world view of naive numbers, i.e. from an infantile world view, existance equals to truth.
And naivety tends to produce aaaalllll that truth, without the least lick of mercy, to the surface!
That's certainly a key to understand lots of what surrounds us(and which i seem to get not earlier than right noww, keying, smiles).
Fact is only that this kind of truth has these karmic effects, while most people don't get it because they think: 'any truth is good truth', and that's indeed a vicious circle trap, where the "cure" is always: more of it, more of the sick-maker. But that's fatal as long as one has no ability to transmute karma.

So this knowledge may be of value for those who 'want to pull out, cause they like it too much(Shirl Manson)'; to have it at hand when it is asked for and needed.

What we've got to have always at hand(in mind), is  another term of truth: functional truth, truth that really works in a pleasant way.
Replacing words of chatter by words of magic.

Bits of moonlight!
Juergen

Eileen,
If you are open to share about it, I'd love to hear more about your self-forgiveness processes.  This is where I really get stuck, with the self-forgiveness.  For example, I notice that after I do the chakras meditation I become very irritable and have feelings of anger. Often these feelings manifest as anger towards others.  Others who I perceive to have harmed me. Then, as I look deeper, I see that I am actually angry at myself and projecting it onto them.  When I look at my self anger, I see that I am mad at myself for what I have done to my life and I get stuck in that, and in sadness, a sense of waste and squandering, and self pity.  Like mystress said earlier, that's just a way of still holding onto it.  Surrendering my self-anger doesn't seem to work, maybe because I don't know how to stop clinging to it?  This seems to be about the past for me, I feel a lot more positive about the present, even though there are a lot of things in the present that I am not all that happy about either.  I have had a difficult life so far, but the past is gone and unchangeable, and using it to beat myself up is dumb.  Maybe I could do a ritual to greive my past, and then I could be able to let it go?  I want to let it go, truly, but it feels stuck.
Namaste,
Jennifer

Quote from: Jennifer on Feb 17, 2008, 12:33:41 PM
Eileen, If you are open to share about it, I'd love to hear more about your self-forgiveness processes.  This is where I really get stuck, with the self-forgiveness.

Everything a person needs to know about this is contained within the FST lessons, and the archived information on this forum. 

That said, what I have noticed is that often, the words used to describe things can be difficult for some of us to understand or conceptualize.  We all interpret things based on our personal experiences.  When we read/hear/see things - we form the experiences into words in our heads and these words take on meanings specific to us personally.  When I figured this out it helped me tremendously.

Learning to forgive myself is a work in progress and has taken persistence.  For me, first came the work on learning what it actually MEANS to love my self.  It just happened that way, but really, I suppose you can't separate the two. 

What I did personally, is that when the time came that I was really wanting change because there was so much anger and so many power issues, I was sitting in my meditation space, and I just burst into tears and sobbed and I said, out loud, HELP ME.  Period.  (The intent was to help me get un-stuck from where I was.)   I said it over and over and then I went on with my day.

Let me back up just a bit.   

What I have also done that is an important practice for me is that I surround myself with physical things that I want in my life.  My house (and my office) is filled with beautiful living plants, with stones engraved with words like "success, courage, forgiveness, love, gratitude, etc.", with various sculptures of animals that I love, pictures, etc.  I surround myself with beautiful things and with statements that describe what I want in my life.  It is all around me and so I never forget.  It also sets the energy of my life.  I surround myself with what I want.  I also only allow people (close personal relationships)  in my life who ARE what I want to be.

Back to the "HELP ME" type thing.  I have, since then, recognized the power of the spoken word.  So when I want to change something, I say, out loud, "How can I figure out what I need to know in order to achieve ______?"  And then I let my mind do it's thing and figure it out.  But I have to sort through the goal and find the correct WORDS that work for me personally...words that carry the right INTERPRETATION based on my own life. 

For example, the word "abundance" has a very negative association for many folks who have never known what it means.  Play around with associations/words to get the right thing you want.  Even the word "love"  -  If  every time you think of the word "love" a picture of someone betraying you pops into your head, you're not going to want to use that word in "I love myself" for your statement about what you want.  Maybe the words "honor and respect" make more sense.

Affirmations.  My personal opinion is that an affirmation is a statement that a person says over and over, but who believes it is NOT true.  To me, 'affirmations' carry a negative connotation.  That's just me.

If you want to INSTALL a new belief for yourself (i.e; I forgive myself for allowing myself to be hurt by my uncle Frank) then you can just DO IT.  At least I do it this way.  I just say the statement, out loud, with lots of emotion (even defiance) in it and then I let it go and walk away.  It also helps to write down what I want (the new statement) and tape it up in places where I'll see it.  Forget FEELING that it's not true in the now.  Just do the statement and expect that it's formed out ahead of you and go on with life.  There is no need to repeat a statement for days and weeks unless you think it's not possible, eh?  Think about that.  Notice what you're doing in your mind as you say a statement!  Just put it in there and trust that it's there.  And later, if it's not, then find different words and do it again.  You can trust your (subconscious) mind to grab and implement whatever you put in there as a command!

But here is the most important thing of all, next to the desire to change...

Take responsibility. 

This is written all over the place in this FST course.

STOP COMPLAINING.  Just stop.  Stop stop stop.  disallow it.  Stop it right in the mind, where it begins!  If something is screwed up, just figure out what you can do about it (if anything) and get the hell on with life.  It's done, let it die.

The past does not exist except that we keep feeding it with our thoughts.  I keep this statement in mind all the time, and it comes from CROW which is in my medicine card deck.  (And I have a family of crows that remind me all the time in my yard.)  I added the parts after the -

"The Past Is My Teacher  -  But it does not BIND me.
The Present Is My Creation  -  For which I am grateful.
The Future Is My Inspiration  -  About which I am passionate."

We can only be grateful for our creation and passionate about our future if we know that we are creating it with our thoughts moment by moment...  Knowing this is wonderful once we have disempowered the painful parts of the past.  And that is done in the mind.  That painful past is FILLED with power if we can harness it.  Power of Wisdom and compassion and understanding!  And when that is harnessed and turned toward self-forgiveness and self-love, there is nothing left but pure joy and gratitude!  It's a beautiful thing!

My childhood may have sucked, but I personally create every moment out ahead of me with my thoughts, and that means that my future can be beautiful and filled with joy and fun and wealth on all levels.  It means that I have the power to choose what I surround myself with, how I behave and HOW I THINK.  THAT is power. 

And for that little bit I 'programmed' myself with the statement above, and I also demanded of myself the phrase:  I REFUSE to be afraid of anything!  also, I REFUSE to be offended by anything anybody says or does to me.  And I've done about a million other little programmed statements.  I do them every time I see my reflection in my surroundings, and I want to change what I see.

There is so much to making change in one's life.  Lots of layers, and each person has to do things in their own way because we are all our own people.  If the desire is there, the method will come.  Just keep at it.  It takes time, which means it takes patience.  And that process is why we're here playing the game in the first place.  So enjoy the process!

You'll be fine...
so now just ask yourself the question(s), out loud:  How can I learn to love/forgive myself?  HELP ME.  And then stand back and play with it and watch what happens for you!
Eileen

Thanks Jen, for asking Eileen

Quote from: Mystress on Feb 08, 2008, 08:04:25 PM

  Everybody, what makes you feel loved? How do you express your love for others?
 

This thread has helped to answer a question I've had brewing lately.  I have a book called "The Five Love Languages" that helped me interpret what makes me feel loved.  It's service.  When someone does something for me, it translates as love. 

I'm coming up on a year now that I've been working close to home vs an 11 hour day 5 days a week previously.  It really kinked me up and I'm still  unwinding.  I've had this attitude that everyone should be (see - 'should' - red flag already) responsible for their own stuff - kids should clean up after themselves and help with dinner etc. because I work for a living nanana...but it wasn't happening to my expectation.  I've had attitude about it but as I unwind I see what's in the mirror.  I wasn't being responsible for my stuff.  Now I do everything, and I still get in moods about goofy little stuff (...why can't they at least put the toilet paper on the roll when they use the last of it?...).  But I remind myself that I'm looking for service (love) outside of myself, when in fact I won't be satisfied unless it comes from the inside.  And it's true, the outside follows.  My 8 year old son has decided to make pancakes for dinner.  That wouldn't have happened before, when I 'expected' the kids to pitch in and help.   

Lady C
I'm looking for service (love) outside of myself, when in fact I won't be satisfied unless it comes from the inside.

It's interesting, i had  a similar thought today: that we feel the love from communication inside.
So "Self" is not such a monolithic block, as the term may suggest. Recently i identified the 2 gender sides as Hensel and Gretel, You know: from Grimms faerie tales; this brought some deep loving emotions to surface; even for the 'evil witch', who seeks also communication, (next to privacy).
From here we find security, about matters who we are, and learn better to deal with anger and all kind of outside stuff, stuff that has certain tendencies to usurp our identity; we get the choice for detachment which can make karma a source of nourishment: it no longer guides us, but is locked by us in quarantine, hoho intrusive astral beings as guinea pigs ; that's no longer religion with its threats thru gods and goddesses, who are usually also planets(and bring dis-ease!). Nowadays they are not always planets, but all kinds of "influential persons"; away into quarantine with them too
I read a text about a spiritual astro path where people are extremely timid about literally everything, the world becomes a mine-field, nearly no place to go!
It's so much better to seek unity with the Divine, and a growing discernment proves this way is right.
It's also all about Self-Love. It often seems so plain to me, including plain logic, that i wonder if it's a path at all! But i think that's the best confirmation of all..

Quote from: Mystress on Feb 08, 2008, 08:04:25 PM

Everybody, what makes you feel loved? How do you express your love for others?
 

This thread has helped to answer a question I've had brewing lately.  I have a book called "The Five Love Languages" that helped me interpret what makes me feel loved.  It's service.  When someone does something for me, it translates as love.

Hi Lady C,

I have posed the same question, and interesting to realize that all of my 6 sisters and 3 brothers have the same trait. They do loads for their partners and moan all the time that they don't get much back.

I've looked into this area for many years, reading this thread has brought it back for me to look at again with a new insight.

With my issue, I feel it steams from not receiving any form of emotion and physical love from my mother. My mother was not allowed to hug us or show any love towards us or she would get beat up by my father. I was 4 years old when my father died, my mother did everything for us…she shown her love thru (service).  I remember a time when I was going on holiday with my friends and I tried to hug her as I was leaving…she froze up rigid.

This has repeated itself in my life. When my wife is really messed up with something and needs emotional support and a hug…I also freeze and don't know what to do about it… I would say I’II make you a drink of tea…this in my way of showing her that I love her through (service). My wife is extremely sensitive to energy, and says that there is nothing their, that I am cold, which really frustrates me because I love her so. This has been a major issue for me and for years I have been searching the Buddhist text for answers. Your insight has shone a different light upon it ~ thanks for sharing that.

I've have tried to look at my actions through their eyes, I saw that doing all these things was perceived as me trying to control the situation, doing service to feel in control. Resulting in them getting pissed off, making them not want to do anything.

While I've been studying the k-primer I received a lot of realization about attachments to expectations, and I too am finding that the more I make friends and love myself the more this is reflected back. I am amazed at what this course as done for me so far; people are smiling at me all the time, occasionally telling me all their troubles as if I am a psychiatrist (really strange that one)

I still do the same for other as I have always done, but I am trying to do it with love instead of control. I am now experimenting with directing the feeling inward to my divine beloved first, which seems to fuel the love that is being projected outwards.

Again, thanks for sharing, which has brought stuff up for me to forgive and surrender.

Namaste

Quote from: juergen on Feb 19, 2008, 08:45:24 AM
Thanks Jen, for asking Eileen

Juergen, there is this 'thing' I sense in this statement, so I'd like to just think out loud a bit.

I don't have a problem with you, BTW.  In fact, you seem quite brilliant and I'm in awe at some of the things you say because of your perceptive capacity.

What I do 'have' is an unclear interpretation of the things you post, and knowing this, I often prefer to keep quiet rather than comment on things you say.  It's partially a language barrier that makes some expressions a bit confusing for me.  It's partly the place from which you are speaking that I'm not in resonance with.  And when you commented about my statement about 'thoughts that have not yet formed into words' I completely perceived what you were thinking with that and where you were as you processed the concept.  No need to comment further.

Anyway, I just wanted to extend a friendly 'I respect and honor you and do not think anything ill toward you.' sort of thing.  But I don't always find myself operating from a similar place as you are.  And I'm okay with that.  I do appreciate the contributions you make.   
Blessings
Eileen

To Eileen,

Jennifer has my admiration, because she utters directly where the shoe hurts, and puts her questions very clearly, even addressing the person(in this case: You) who She seeks an answer from; i was sensing the dynamic of it, how the "Eileen machine" was pushed to 'prime efficiency', this is just fun and a joy to witness, also for the bystanders, i guess, i'm not alone.
My short comment was meant as a 'thank you' to both of you, just a little applause.

I'm ok, when people are reserved with comments, i'm aware of the twisted bizarre makeup of my mental workings, i think they'll become smoother and more digestible with time. I'm though in hope, that there may be some stuff useful in some of my comments for the other seekers.

Stay guided by your intuition, it's perfect! 'Endless discussions lead to nowhere', this is sacred space, where this notion is reality. Stay detached as you feel it to be right.
Still you can of course comment me; if you want, yes  .

Like this one, lovely indeed, and big surprise(and somewhat no surprise, funny!)

Moonlight!!

In fact. I don't even like myself and I see myself as having  a lot of negative qualities, worthless, a failure, made bad decisions, whatever.  I feel very critical of every little thing I do sometimes. 

I'd really appreciate to receive some suggestions, techniques, hear other people's experiences about this, because right now it feels like a wall I can't get over/around/through.....thank you....



Hi Jennifer,

I feel a little awkward to give advice as I am new to the concepts of this course.

After reading your original post, I feel the urge to give you my experiences in very similar circumstances.

I have discovered that my problem was that I found entertainment in the poor me control drama, ego playing tricks on me, 'self deception' . Ego loves negative and positive emotions...gets a feed from both, doesn't care which one along as it keeps alive. If you experience the raw quality of the emotion, you will transmute it into wisdom/knowledge. That is the Tibetan Buddhism way, but this leaves you connecting to the aloneness of the moment. This can feel very scary, as you feel there is nothing to hold onto, leaving a  tendency to feel sorry for yourself in other area of your life and the cycle starts again. I have found that the Mystress teachings are far more effective...just connect to the raw quality of the emotion and surrender it to the Goddess, not forgetting to replace the space where it came from with grace and light...this leaves you feeling loved for who you are.

As I have read and led to understand, there are three types of love: I will quote a passage from "cutting through spiritual Materialism" by Chogyam trungpa. page 211

Love and compassion are vague terms: we can interpret them in different ways. Generally in our lives we take a grasping approach, trying to attach ourselves to different situations in order to achieve security. Perhaps we regard someone as our baby, or, on the other hand, we might like to regard ourselves as helpless infants and leap into someone's lap. This lap might belong to an individual, an organization, a community, a teacher, any parental figure. So-called "love" relationships usually take one of these two patterns.  Either we are are being fed by someone or we are feeding others.  These are false, distorted kinds of love or compassion.  The urge to commitment...that we would like to "belong," be someone's child, or that we would like them to be our child...is seemingly powerful. 

"Cutting it short now"...However, there is another kind of love and compassion, a third way. Just be what you are. If you can be what you are, external situations will become as they are, automatically. End quote.

Mystress says: "you are all that is, and that is 'Love' "

Instead of being depressed about the feelings, be happy and grateful because it is a chance to surrender them...this will really piss your ego of...surrender that as well Look at it as a golden opportunity to be closer to the goddess.

love and light,

Dave.

Dave
Instead of being depressed about the feelings, be happy and grateful because it is a chance to surrender them...this will really piss your ego of...surrender that as well  Look at it as a golden opportunity to be closer to the goddess.

Yes, hold onto your pain!
However not as a victim but as a mistress or master.
Let's just fake we're women and men  ...of the future!

This might be a good if not the best spiritual first aid package.
Put the pain into quarantine and this way surpass it.
And one more precaution: see, that you get the whole melody of pain; be mindful of the whole rabbit warren, the whole who you think you are.

Or in other words: Illuminate these gifts of depression and pain with calm..

..moonlight!!

Juergen

Yes it is a kind of holding the pain, feeling the raw quality, but you must surrender it..What I perceive is, don't suppress your emotions, don't let them take you over, but somewhere in the middle space them out...transmute them into wisdom/knowledge. Better still, let goddess do it for us. For me it is far more complete, especially asking for the gaps to be filled in with grace and light afterwards..

As the Mystress advisers us:

“Goddess, please take this, and everything connected to it, in top down fashion from point of origin. It is a gift for You. All Yours. Thank you very much.” (breathe sigh of release and think about something else.)

This will take care of the rabbit warren

Namaste

Dave,

Goody, all goody, hand me the doc over and i sign

One thing i wanted especially to stress, is the personal characteristic of ego, which is by my experience reflected in each depression, pain, complaint, bad habit and so on; integrate your self knowledge (of who you think you are) in the surrender! Make it special! This moonlight thing just works fine for wholeness, the whole individual picture, melody, however you might call it.

Let it thru!!