...on civility, good manners, and health.

• http://web.jhu.edu/civility/ArticlesandPressReleases.html">interesting article.

What is written here is rather basic, I think. It is also basically true, but it is not the whole truth and in my experience life is seldom that uncomplicated. I kind of miss %ldquothe other side%rdquo of things. If it was true that more social relations where always for the best, the people spending most time socializing with others would be the happiest. That is very far from the truth. For instance, if you socialize a lot people will start to make claims and try to direct your thoughts and actions and you get involved in a social game where even the most trivial matters becomes very important, which of course can create a lot of problems. Further, making a lot of sacrifices for others does not necessarily make other people respect you, rather they often tend to take you for granted. Everything has a back side, I suppose, and what is needed is some kind of equilibrium, which differs from person to person and from environment to environment. If you are working in a work-place where a majority of your colleagues are psychopaths, you would for instance most likely be better of if you not socialize with them at all, as that would only harm you. But if your colleagues are developed and balanced peoples with wings, you would most likely benefit a lot from spending time with them.

  LOL! Vyana. Are you writing this to release it or to validate it?

 One reason we called my improv teacher Guru (even though he hates that!) is that some of what he taught, was so profound.  

 I recall one game that rocked my world. It was an improv game based on rejection and social dynamics. Any scene, four people. The goal is to stay in the group and get someone else rejected.

 Every single time, the person who lost was the person who declared themselves the loser!  (With a single exception, which was a scene with 3 women and one man, he was ejected immediately!!)

 I think he knew I was fragile in this area, because I was in a scene with 4 men... they competed with each other and I was safe as houses. Any four, any scene... each time, the rejection was self-rejection. In one case, a woman felt ignored because the other two were focused on the rejecting the fourth woman, and declared herself the loser when she was winning!

  Kieth Johnstone sitting in the middle of the audience row, explaining body language to the other student... opening my eyes to my illusions of victimhood, that all those years of rejection, were self created... then we went for a break, and whispered to each other in astonishment, watching the same games being played out for real at the surrounding tables... talk about seeing my life flashing before my eyes!  

 In the first few seconds when strangers meet, thousands of subtle body language signals are exchanged. Bodies talking to bodies, while the mind is unaware. The mind may even try to fake it, stand tall and look brave..  while the body is admitting "my person is very nervous but trying to hide it and appear brave so please be kind .. yadda yadda... and some else's body is saying "yeah that bad expderience happened to my person too, see?? .. but my person thinks they got over it by toughing it out, so tough is what your person is going to get because it is how my person shows love and respect..."   .. all in a millisecond, too fast for ego to follow, or even have a clue.

 yap yap yap. In person, they never shut up... and that is just on the physical!! Add in empathy, and oy, too much information...

 I sometimes get attached to one TV show or another, for a while. Lately, it has been "Due South" because the lead charachter is such a delightful reflection of my Divine Beloved. It is also the funniest show on TV... I know it is only a silly cop show comedy, but it is also a beautiful representation of the power of honour, courtesy and personal integrity. It slays me.. I am in love with an archetype!! LOL!!!

: What is written here is rather basic, I think. It is also basically true, but it is not the whole truth and in my experience life is seldom that uncomplicated.

Complexity tends to be ego. Truth really is usually, a simple elegant thing.

: I kind of miss %ldquothe other side%rdquo of things. If it was true that more social relations where always for the best, the people spending most time socializing with others would be the happiest. That is very far from the truth. For instance, if you socialize a lot people will start to make claims and try to direct your thoughts and actions and you get involved in a social game where even the most trivial matters becomes very important, which of course can create a lot of problems. Further, making a lot of sacrifices for others does not necessarily make other people respect you, rather they often tend to take you for granted.

There is a great scene, in an episode where they are about to drown in a bank vault and the italian cop sidekick asks the superhero Canadian mountie ... demands, before they die, that the mountie admit that he sometimes feels unappreciated. It is hard for the mountie to do that, because it is not the point of courtesy!! You do it, for yourself, because it makes you a better person. More whole. It gives spiritual strength and personal power. It makes you bigger.

 Giving your power away to fear, is not dharma.  

> Everything has a back side, I suppose, and what is needed is some kind of equilibrium, which differs from person to person and from environment to environment. If you are working in a work-place where a majority of your colleagues are psychopaths, you would for instance most likely be better of if you not socialize with them at all, as that would only harm you. But if your colleagues are developed and balanced peoples with wings, you would most likely benefit a lot from spending time with them.

Do you mind if I take a poll? I am kind of taking a risk, because if the results of the poll are negative feedback you might decide we are bullying and rejecting you, too... I have no control over that.

 I want to ask the other students, what was your first gut impression of the energy of Vyana's post? Not your ideals of how you want to treat people, but the instant negative or postive reactions you felt?  Did it seem like there is a "kick me" sign on his back that he put there? Something else? different?
 He is projecting, what is your body's reaction to the projection, how does it make you want to behave towards him? Please give him some feedback about your own reaction so he can see himself reflected.

  Blessings..

***so, to answer what you asked us for, Mystress:

first i got bored reading, felt like blablabla... and wanted to skip the posting. so my reaction was to withdraw- no interest. Than I thought, why would you associate socializing with making sacrifices for others and why should you have such a bad luck to be in a working place where a majority of your colleagues are psychopaths?

Iris

:   LOL! Vyana. Are you writing this to release it or to validate it?

:   One reason we called my improv teacher Guru (even though he hates that!) is that some of what he taught, was so profound.  

:   I recall one game that rocked my world. It was an improv game based on rejection and social dynamics. Any scene, four people. The goal is to stay in the group and get someone else rejected.

:   Every single time, the person who lost was the person who declared themselves the loser!  (With a single exception, which was a scene with 3 women and one man, he was ejected immediately!!)

:   I think he knew I was fragile in this area, because I was in a scene with 4 men... they competed with each other and I was safe as houses. Any four, any scene... each time, the rejection was self-rejection. In one case, a woman felt ignored because the other two were focused on the rejecting the fourth woman, and declared herself the loser when she was winning!

:    Kieth Johnstone sitting in the middle of the audience row, explaining body language to the other student... opening my eyes to my illusions of victimhood, that all those years of rejection, were self created... then we went for a break, and whispered to each other in astonishment, watching the same games being played out for real at the surrounding tables... talk about seeing my life flashing before my eyes!  

:   In the first few seconds when strangers meet, thousands of subtle body language signals are exchanged. Bodies talking to bodies, while the mind is unaware. The mind may even try to fake it, stand tall and look brave..  while the body is admitting "my person is very nervous but trying to hide it and appear brave so please be kind .. yadda yadda... and some else's body is saying "yeah that bad expderience happened to my person too, see?? .. but my person thinks they got over it by toughing it out, so tough is what your person is going to get because it is how my person shows love and respect..."   .. all in a millisecond, too fast for ego to follow, or even have a clue.

:   yap yap yap. In person, they never shut up... and that is just on the physical!! Add in empathy, and oy, too much information...

:   I sometimes get attached to one TV show or another, for a while. Lately, it has been "Due South" because the lead charachter is such a delightful reflection of my Divine Beloved. It is also the funniest show on TV... I know it is only a silly cop show comedy, but it is also a beautiful representation of the power of honour, courtesy and personal integrity. It slays me.. I am in love with an archetype!! LOL!!!

:    

: : What is written here is rather basic, I think. It is also basically true, but it is not the whole truth and in my experience life is seldom that uncomplicated.

: Complexity tends to be ego. Truth really is usually, a simple elegant thing.

: : I kind of miss %ldquothe other side%rdquo of things. If it was true that more social relations where always for the best, the people spending most time socializing with others would be the happiest. That is very far from the truth. For instance, if you socialize a lot people will start to make claims and try to direct your thoughts and actions and you get involved in a social game where even the most trivial matters becomes very important, which of course can create a lot of problems. Further, making a lot of sacrifices for others does not necessarily make other people respect you, rather they often tend to take you for granted.

: There is a great scene, in an episode where they are about to drown in a bank vault and the italian cop sidekick asks the superhero Canadian mountie ... demands, before they die, that the mountie admit that he sometimes feels unappreciated. It is hard for the mountie to do that, because it is not the point of courtesy!! You do it, for yourself, because it makes you a better person. More whole. It gives spiritual strength and personal power. It makes you bigger.

:   Giving your power away to fear, is not dharma.  

: > Everything has a back side, I suppose, and what is needed is some kind of equilibrium, which differs from person to person and from environment to environment. If you are working in a work-place where a majority of your colleagues are psychopaths, you would for instance most likely be better of if you not socialize with them at all, as that would only harm you. But if your colleagues are developed and balanced peoples with wings, you would most likely benefit a lot from spending time with them.

: Do you mind if I take a poll? I am kind of taking a risk, because if the results of the poll are negative feedback you might decide we are bullying and rejecting you, too... I have no control over that.

:   I want to ask the other students, what was your first gut impression of the energy of Vyana's post? Not your ideals of how you want to treat people, but the instant negative or postive reactions you felt?  Did it seem like there is a "kick me" sign on his back that he put there? Something else? different?
:   He is projecting, what is your body's reaction to the projection, how does it make you want to behave towards him? Please give him some feedback about your own reaction so he can see himself reflected.

:    Blessings..  

This reaction is similar to my reaction to the article. I wouldn%rsquot have read all of it if it had not been recommended by Mystress. It is basically true, but a lot of information needs to be added for it to appear as anything but naïve in a scientific context. I am mentioning sacrifices only because the article recommends such. What I added was only a few examples of well-known problems which tend do occur if you socialize a lot, as is recommended by the author. It is well-known that a lot of people, especially women, have a problem with always being helpful and unable to say no, which makes them sacrifice more and more to others. I wouldn%rsquot recommend that. The workplace with psychopaths is just an example of a situation where it is obvious that it wouldn%rsquot be very vise to follow the recommendations of the article.

: ***so, to answer what you asked us for,

Mystress:

: first i got bored reading, felt like blablabla... and wanted to skip the posting. so my reaction was to withdraw- no interest. Than I thought, why would you associate socializing with making sacrifices for others and why should you have such a bad luck to be in a working place where a majority of your colleagues are psychopaths?

: Iris

: :   LOL! Vyana. Are you writing this to release it or to validate it?

: :   One reason we called my improv teacher Guru (even though he hates that!) is that some of what he taught, was so profound.  

: :   I recall one game that rocked my world. It was an improv game based on rejection and social dynamics. Any scene, four people. The goal is to stay in the group and get someone else rejected.

: :   Every single time, the person who lost was the person who declared themselves the loser!  (With a single exception, which was a scene with 3 women and one man, he was ejected immediately!!)

: :   I think he knew I was fragile in this area, because I was in a scene with 4 men... they competed with each other and I was safe as houses. Any four, any scene... each time, the rejection was self-rejection. In one case, a woman felt ignored because the other two were focused on the rejecting the fourth woman, and declared herself the loser when she was winning!

: :    Kieth Johnstone sitting in the middle of the audience row, explaining body language to the other student... opening my eyes to my illusions of victimhood, that all those years of rejection, were self created... then we went for a break, and whispered to each other in astonishment, watching the same games being played out for real at the surrounding tables... talk about seeing my life flashing before my eyes!  

: :   In the first few seconds when strangers meet, thousands of subtle body language signals are exchanged. Bodies talking to bodies, while the mind is unaware. The mind may even try to fake it, stand tall and look brave..  while the body is admitting "my person is very nervous but trying to hide it and appear brave so please be kind .. yadda yadda... and some else's body is saying "yeah that bad expderience happened to my person too, see?? .. but my person thinks they got over it by toughing it out, so tough is what your person is going to get because it is how my person shows love and respect..."   .. all in a millisecond, too fast for ego to follow, or even have a clue.

: :   yap yap yap. In person, they never shut up... and that is just on the physical!! Add in empathy, and oy, too much information...

: :   I sometimes get attached to one TV show or another, for a while. Lately, it has been "Due South" because the lead charachter is such a delightful reflection of my Divine Beloved. It is also the funniest show on TV... I know it is only a silly cop show comedy, but it is also a beautiful representation of the power of honour, courtesy and personal integrity. It slays me.. I am in love with an archetype!! LOL!!!

: :    

: : : What is written here is rather basic, I think. It is also basically true, but it is not the whole truth and in my experience life is seldom that uncomplicated.

: : Complexity tends to be ego. Truth really is usually, a simple elegant thing.

: : : I kind of miss %ldquothe other side%rdquo of things. If it was true that more social relations where always for the best, the people spending most time socializing with others would be the happiest. That is very far from the truth. For instance, if you socialize a lot people will start to make claims and try to direct your thoughts and actions and you get involved in a social game where even the most trivial matters becomes very important, which of course can create a lot of problems. Further, making a lot of sacrifices for others does not necessarily make other people respect you, rather they often tend to take you for granted.

: : There is a great scene, in an episode where they are about to drown in a bank vault and the italian cop sidekick asks the superhero Canadian mountie ... demands, before they die, that the mountie admit that he sometimes feels unappreciated. It is hard for the mountie to do that, because it is not the point of courtesy!! You do it, for yourself, because it makes you a better person. More whole. It gives spiritual strength and personal power. It makes you bigger.

: :   Giving your power away to fear, is not dharma.  

: : > Everything has a back side, I suppose, and what is needed is some kind of equilibrium, which differs from person to person and from environment to environment. If you are working in a work-place where a majority of your colleagues are psychopaths, you would for instance most likely be better of if you not socialize with them at all, as that would only harm you. But if your colleagues are developed and balanced peoples with wings, you would most likely benefit a lot from spending time with them.

: : Do you mind if I take a poll? I am kind of taking a risk, because if the results of the poll are negative feedback you might decide we are bullying and rejecting you, too... I have no control over that.

: :   I want to ask the other students, what was your first gut impression of the energy of Vyana's post? Not your ideals of how you want to treat people, but the instant negative or postive reactions you felt?  Did it seem like there is a "kick me" sign on his back that he put there? Something else? different?
: :   He is projecting, what is your body's reaction to the projection, how does it make you want to behave towards him? Please give him some feedback about your own reaction so he can see himself reflected.

: :    Blessings..  

: I sometimes get attached to one TV show or another, for a while. Lately, it has been "Due South" because the lead charachter is such a delightful reflection of my Divine Beloved. It is also the funniest show on TV... I know it is only a silly cop show comedy, but it is also a beautiful representation of the power of honour, courtesy and personal integrity. It slays me.. I am in love with an archetype!! LOL!!!

Oh, are you thinking about the series about the Mounted Policeman in red suit with his wolf-like dog? He%rsquos so handsome! I actually had a little crush on him when the series was broadcasted on Norwegian television many years ago. Hehe

: Do you mind if I take a poll? I am kind of taking a risk, because if the results of the poll are negative feedback you might decide we are bullying and rejecting you, too... I have no control over that.

:   I want to ask the other students, what was your first gut impression of the energy of Vyana's post? Not your ideals of how you want to treat people, but the instant negative or positive reactions you felt?  Did it seem like there is a "kick me" sign on his back that he put there? Something else? different?
:   He is projecting, what is your body's reaction to the projection, how does it make you want to behave towards him? Please give him some feedback about your own reaction so he can see himself reflected.

:    Blessings..  

My first reaction is I think that you use almost every opportunity you have to defend your right of being a drug addict. Even when something is not directed to you, you start shouting that you%rsquore addicted and that you have every right to be so. Then you go on and say how terrible it is to be addicted.

You%rsquore addicted to being a victim. You indulge in feelings of being a victim and your brain release hormones that give you a high.

The whole society is conditioned that way, just watch the news. People indulge in feelings of fear because it makes them high.

Think of any feeling of fear, it makes you high. It gives a strange pleasant feeling in your body. The brain releases hormones that are even more addictive than opium.

You can start with admitting that you%rsquore addicted to being a victim. Then change your way of reacting and thinking.

You can choose to not indulge in feelings of victimization anymore. Instead of blaming others, you can choose to take responsibility for your own situation.

What you focus is what you get. It is very apparent to me that you constantly focus on being a victim %ndash and that is exactly what gets manifested.

People treat you the same way you treat yourself. You treat yourself like a victim, and then that is exactly what people make you to.

Do everything you can to change your own situation. This is a great place to change your self, but it will not work if you say that you have tried everything and are not willing to do anything else.

Edward

Sorry, I don%rsquot understand. Who is a drug addict defending addiction? Does anyone really get high from being a victim? I certainly don%rsquot indulge in negative feelings. It would be more accurate to say that I am a little afraid of them or that I tend to avoid painful experiences. I certainly don%rsquot constantly focus on being a victim. I am a successful professional and focus most of my time on my work, then on my wife and kids and on my spiritual growth. I don%rsquot use much time to think of the problems caused by envious colleagues, but they are still real. I don%rsquot treat myself like a victim. Nor do other people do that face to face. On the contrary they are most often respectful and polite. What is happening is a defamation campaign of lies behind my back. I have constantly done a lot to change my situation, but envious people have also done a lot to keep me at their own moderate level of success.

: : Do you mind if I take a poll? I am kind of taking a risk, because if the results of the poll are negative feedback you might decide we are bullying and rejecting you, too... I have no control over that.

: :   I want to ask the other students, what was your first gut impression of the energy of Vyana's post? Not your ideals of how you want to treat people, but the instant negative or positive reactions you felt?  Did it seem like there is a "kick me" sign on his back that he put there? Something else? different?
: :   He is projecting, what is your body's reaction to the projection, how does it make you want to behave towards him? Please give him some feedback about your own reaction so he can see himself reflected.

: :    Blessings..  

:
: My first reaction is I think that you use almost every opportunity you have to defend your right of being a drug addict. Even when something is not directed to you, you start shouting that you%rsquore addicted and that you have every right to be so. Then you go on and say how terrible it is to be addicted.

: You%rsquore addicted to being a victim. You indulge in feelings of being a victim and your brain release hormones that give you a high.

: The whole society is conditioned that way, just watch the news. People indulge in feelings of fear because it makes them high.

: Think of any feeling of fear, it makes you high. It gives a strange pleasant feeling in your body. The brain releases hormones that are even more addictive than opium.

: You can start with admitting that you%rsquore addicted to being a victim. Then change your way of reacting and thinking.

: You can choose to not indulge in feelings of victimization anymore. Instead of blaming others, you can choose to take responsibility for your own situation.

: What you focus is what you get. It is very apparent to me that you constantly focus on being a victim %ndash and that is exactly what gets manifested.

: People treat you the same way you treat yourself. You treat yourself like a victim, and then that is exactly what people make you to.

: Do everything you can to change your own situation. This is a great place to change your self, but it will not work if you say that you have tried everything and are not willing to do anything else.

:
: Edward

Vyana,

Here's my feedback:

I'm not rationalizing, n o t commenting your thoughts as regards c o n t e n t, just trying to show you what f e e l i n g s your words arouse and how they block the reception of the rational content of your words - and how thus you may easily be misunderstood by others, or even worse ...

Yes I do see a "kick me" sign on your back -
When I read your post my first gut impression of the energy radiating from it was: wow! This is quite an aggressive way of stating things, feels like an unreasonable overreaction. The rational thoughts expressed by you indeed make some sense, but the way these are expressed is overwhelmingly destructive, deliberately trying to ... what? Get attention? Impress others? Want to be kicked? Want to be comforted ...?

Want some examples?
Mystress recommends reading this article as being "interesting". Your first reaction is that it is "rather basic" (not interesting at all), "basically true, but it is not the whole truth" (so it is just a bunch of deceiving crap) ... "life is seldom that uncomplicated" (the social interactions described in the article are to my opinion far from uncomplicated) ... "If it was true ... That is very far from the truth" (so the whole article, though recommended reading, is a bunch of lies? Someone trying to deceive us? How can Mystress recommend such an article?) ... then what you write about "some kind of equilibrium" is not bad, maybe I am still going to listen to you ... you show some mercy, but not for long: ... "if your colleagues are developed and balanced peoples" ... (sounds good, that's what we try to be ourselves, aren't we?) ... "with wings" (this makes the former positive statement ridiculous and turns it into something very negative - it actually says: Developed and balanced people do not exist, that includes us too, so, it is just psychopaths surrounding us all of the time, no, WE are the psychopaths, is what you are really conveying as a subconscious message. It may be that this is your experience, or better: your perception of things. A very ironic and negative last statement. Remember rhetoric lessons, the last statement you make is usually the statement that lingers on in the mind of the listener/reader ... Whew! A lot of karma cookies to chew on!)

For sure your ideas are not just impartial critical thoughts about a scientific article on sociology, but what you really want to say to us gets not clear at all.

Except that a feeling of deep anger is being transmitted through your words to the reader. And then the rational arguments you present just go nowhere. Maybe that's the point?

But then I remember, you are longing for love, you must be, like all of us, knowingly or not, why else would you bother?

So I refrain from kicking
instead showing you a mirror

love

johannes

I suppose I will think twice before I ever write something again%hellip (By the way, wings are secondary chakras of the heart, related to the ability to accept other people as they are.)

: Vyana,

: Here's my feedback:

: I'm not rationalizing, n o t commenting your thoughts as regards c o n t e n t, just trying to show you what f e e l i n g s your words arouse and how they block the reception of the rational content of your words - and how thus you may easily be misunderstood by others, or even worse ...

: Yes I do see a "kick me" sign on your back -
: When I read your post my first gut impression of the energy radiating from it was: wow! This is quite an aggressive way of stating things, feels like an unreasonable overreaction. The rational thoughts expressed by you indeed make some sense, but the way these are expressed is overwhelmingly destructive, deliberately trying to ... what? Get attention? Impress others? Want to be kicked? Want to be comforted ...?

: Want some examples?
: Mystress recommends reading this article as being "interesting". Your first reaction is that it is "rather basic" (not interesting at all), "basically true, but it is not the whole truth" (so it is just a bunch of deceiving crap) ... "life is seldom that uncomplicated" (the social interactions described in the article are to my opinion far from uncomplicated) ... "If it was true ... That is very far from the truth" (so the whole article, though recommended reading, is a bunch of lies? Someone trying to deceive us? How can Mystress recommend such an article?) ... then what you write about "some kind of equilibrium" is not bad, maybe I am still going to listen to you ... you show some mercy, but not for long: ... "if your colleagues are developed and balanced peoples" ... (sounds good, that's what we try to be ourselves, aren't we?) ... "with wings" (this makes the former positive statement ridiculous and turns it into something very negative - it actually says: Developed and balanced people do not exist, that includes us too, so, it is just psychopaths surrounding us all of the time, no, WE are the psychopaths, is what you are really conveying as a subconscious message. It may be that this is your experience, or better: your perception of things. A very ironic and negative last statement. Remember rhetoric lessons, the last statement you make is usually the statement that lingers on in the mind of the listener/reader ... Whew! A lot of karma cookies to chew on!)

: For sure your ideas are not just impartial critical thoughts about a scientific article on sociology, but what you really want to say to us gets not clear at all.

: Except that a feeling of deep anger is being transmitted through your words to the reader. And then the rational arguments you present just go nowhere. Maybe that's the point?

: But then I remember, you are longing for love, you must be, like all of us, knowingly or not, why else would you bother?

: So I refrain from kicking
: instead showing you a mirror

: love

: johannes

Once, at a NLP seminar the participants were asked %ldquoDid you se the smashed lamp on the car right outside?%rdquo I don%rsquot remember the exact figures, but I think that at least 20 % of the participants answered that they hade seen it. Rather many of the others were unsure if the hade seen it or not. However, there was no broken light.

: Do you mind if I take a poll? I am kind of taking a risk, because if the results of the poll are negative feedback you might decide we are bullying and rejecting you, too... I have no control over that.

:   I want to ask the other students, what was your first gut impression of the energy of Vyana's post? Not your ideals of how you want to treat people, but the instant negative or postive reactions you felt?  Did it seem like there is a "kick me" sign on his back that he put there? Something else? different?
:   He is projecting, what is your body's reaction to the projection, how does it make you want to behave towards him? Please give him some feedback about your own reaction so he can see himself reflected.

:    Blessings..  

  Of course, the students are all suggestible mindless sheep incapable of thinking or feeling for themselves, right?  and of course there is nothing aggressive or insulting in your implication that they are that. Nor is the more deeply implied suggestion of your being a victim of my persuasive conspiracy anywhere, eh?

 I already said it was likely, if the students gave you the feedback as I asked, you would decide you were a victim here too... Do you really want to be right about that? Really? We are the winged ones, Goddess reflecting you, with lovingkindness.  

 Richard Bach said "Argue for your limitations, you get to keep them."

 A lonely old man once told me the biggest mistake of his life... insisting on being right all the time. Because if he was always right, then the people around him always had to be wrong, and being around him wasn't worth it so they went away.

 I've been a victim, I have been molested, raped, beaten up, verbally and emotionally abused, I have been a victim of viriluent conspiracies, I have been a victim of prejudice and rage, harrassment including a cyberstalker who hunted me for 6 years under 16 different email addresses, I've been harrassed by US border guards and I have been robbed several times. I am probably on a CIA cult list because of a vicious troll on K-list impersonating me, I also had someone impersonating me and posting beastiality porn... and I got rear-ended by an impatient fool who thought my car did not exist. I have physical scars, and a touch of post traumatic stress from dozens of events to my very sensitive beingness.

 If I can face all that and still insist "I attract that which occurs" then you have no balls at all, my friend.  I'm laughing, never thought to say that to a student. Just dunno how to reach you, this victimhood is a psychosis and you cling so very tightly and in doing project "abuser" onto people who do not deserve it, and you think it is all love???

 Snap out of it.. wake up NOW.

: Once, at a NLP seminar the participants were asked %ldquoDid you se the smashed lamp on the car right outside?%rdquo I don%rsquot remember the exact figures, but I think that at least 20 % of the participants answered that they hade seen it. Rather many of the others were unsure if the hade seen it or not. However, there was no broken light.

: : Do you mind if I take a poll? I am kind of taking a risk, because if the results of the poll are negative feedback you might decide we are bullying and rejecting you, too... I have no control over that.

: :   I want to ask the other students, what was your first gut impression of the energy of Vyana's post? Not your ideals of how you want to treat people, but the instant negative or postive reactions you felt?  Did it seem like there is a "kick me" sign on his back that he put there? Something else? different?
: :   He is projecting, what is your body's reaction to the projection, how does it make you want to behave towards him? Please give him some feedback about your own reaction so he can see himself reflected.

: :    Blessings..  

:
: : I sometimes get attached to one TV show or another, for a while. Lately, it has been "Due South" because the lead carachter is such a delightful reflection of my Divine Beloved. It is also the funniest show on TV... I know it is only a silly cop show comedy, but it is also a beautiful representation of the power of honour, courtesy and personal integrity. It slays me.. I am in love with an archetype!! LOL!!!

: Oh, are you thinking about the series about the Mounted Policeman in red suit with his wolf-like dog? He%rsquos so handsome! I actually had a little crush on him when the series was broadcasted on Norwegian television many years ago. Hehe
:  

Yes! I don't focus on the actor. Magical ethics...  though Paul Gross is very handsome and does an amazing job of the role.  I focus on the fictional archetypal charachter, my DB in a Mountie hat, entertaining and inspiring me.

 Oh Jeez, now the Shadow side gets into it, just to make me eat my words. Check out the bad boy vampire pic on the right.... it slammed me and made me catch my breath! http://www.paulgross.org/indexhigh.htm" target="new_window">way too pretty

  Was it dubbed or subtitled?  I have to wonder how some of the jokes would translate... I mean, a wolf named Diefenbaker isn't funny unless you know what Prime Minister Deifenbaker was like... ?

 The series and the article have this in common, they inspire me.  For years I have banged my head against a wall, trying to explain to people, why personal integrity is its own reward.  In my experience, getting past scarcity consciousness cannot be taught, it is experiential and so much a result of personal choices that karma is made of.  

 Just keep blowing it off, with grounding, until the light starts leaking in visions of a more beautiful world.

 On Paul Gross's website guestbook, someone wrote:
I knew you by Due South when I was 12, after that I told myself that I would be a kind and real man. Thanks Due South, thank you Paul. And really sorry for my poor English:)Eric
China

  Beauty.
 Cannot be taught... ? Except by example.   Inspiration.

:
: : I sometimes get attached to one TV show or another, for a while. Lately, it has been "Due South" because the lead carachter is such a delightful reflection of my Divine Beloved. It is also the funniest show on TV... I know it is only a silly cop show comedy, but it is also a beautiful representation of the power of honour, courtesy and personal integrity. It slays me.. I am in love with an archetype!! LOL!!!

: Oh, are you thinking about the series about the Mounted Policeman in red suit with his wolf-like dog? He%rsquos so handsome! I actually had a little crush on him when the series was broadcasted on Norwegian television many years ago. Hehe
:  

Yes! I don't focus on the actor. Magical ethics...  though Paul Gross is very handsome and does an amazing job of the role.  I focus on the fictional archetypal charachter, my DB in a Mountie hat, entertaining and inspiring me.

 Oh Jeez, now the Shadow side gets into it, just to make me eat my words. Check out the bad boy vampire pic on the right.... it slammed me and made me catch my breath! http://www.paulgross.org/indexhigh.htm" target="new_window">way too pretty

  Was it dubbed or subtitled?  I have to wonder how some of the jokes would translate... I mean, a wolf named Diefenbaker isn't funny unless you know what Prime Minister Deifenbaker was like... ?

 The series and the article have this in common, they inspire me.  For years I have banged my head against a wall, trying to explain to people, why personal integrity is its own reward.  In my experience, getting past scarcity consciousness cannot be taught, it is experiential and so much a result of personal choices that karma is made of.  

 Just keep blowing it off, with grounding, until the light starts leaking in visions of a more beautiful world.

 On Paul Gross's website guestbook, someone wrote:
I knew you by Due South when I was 12, after that I told myself that I would be a kind and real man. Thanks Due South, thank you Paul. And really sorry for my poor English:)Eric
China

  Beauty.
 Cannot be taught... ? Except by example.   Inspiration.

I bought the idea that I create my own experiences years ago and I don%rsquot consider myself a victim here (and I think I would be able to defend myself if anyone would try to make me one) so what specifically makes you project all this crap on me?

And what makes you label the participants of the NLP seminar as %ldquoall suggestible mindless sheep incapable of thinking or feeling for themselves%rdquo? I think they were probably very far from that, as are the participants of this board. Still I think the way a question is asked %ndash or even the fact that the question is asked %ndash is very important for what answer you will get.

I don%rsquot mind having this discussion. It%rsquos helpful for me, but I suspect primarily with other issues than being a victim, although they are related. These are issues about discussing my own personal problems, being criticized for personal qualities, confronting people and defending my own personal boundaries.

The last year or so there has been an improvement in my situation at my workplace. That is especially true since I took your advice and criticized the people actually doing my job strongly. I felt like a bully when I did it. I also felt like I got close to being the person the bullies project on me in their defamation campaign. Still it seems that the major result is that I gained respect in the eyes of other people. One of the major results of my intense yogic practices since January (kundalini-yoga sat kriya) also seems to be that I kind of feel more serious about myself and my personal boundaries and that I don%rsquot feel like taking no crap from anybody. I have also spontaneously started to correct some influential people in their frequent use of invalid arguments to defend their positions in our discussions. There is also at least some hope for a better future, as the prefect who has been victimizing me and my wife for several years is leaving his position this summer and the dean who has been supporting him has told people that she will leave her position prematurely next summer (none of them are popular today).

:   If I can face all that and still insist "I attract that which occurs" then you have no balls at all, my friend.  I'm laughing, never thought to say that to a student. Just dunno how to reach you, this victimhood is a psychosis and you cling so very tightly and in doing project "abuser" onto people who do not deserve it, and you think it is all love???

Putting aside all the questions about style, about the way of saying things and how that affects other people, about what you mean to say and what people actually understand, and how this determines the emotional dynamics between you and the people around you ... getting to the content:

... yes, I believe you, that you are going through unpleasant social experiences at your workplace. Yes, people are always playing "games" with each other, playing roles on the stage theater called social life. Especially colleagues in a stressfull working environment can pick very hard at each other, even using illegitimate means like spreading bad talk and lies about other persons, and doing it all with an air of politeness, smiling at you when they look you in the face and talking you down when you turn your back on them. This can hurt badly, even up to gastric ulcer.

The question is, do you really want to change the situation you're in?
Then maybe you can mangage to influence people in such a way that they stop defaming you, stop envying you, not by correcting them or bullying them but by making them feel fond of you, by attracting their sympathy, turning envy into admiration, make them say from their heart, hey, you actually are a nice guy, I like you, maybe we can help each other getting on by doing things together, as a team.
"For the good of all and the harm of none."
Maybe you can try to win their hearts, they really are insecure, concerned about you, not knowing how you will react on them, taking a position of defense, alienated. Try not to correct their behaviour or their words, try to change their attitude towards you. It will take some time, for sure a lot of china has been broken already. Find some allies, form alliances, build up a team. Make friends.
But maybe you do not want that?

In know, that's all easier said than done.
Exercising the witness state might help: try to leave your role as an actor  for a moment and look at yourself from the director's seat (in your mind). Helpful also ofcourse: surrender all the crap to goddess and thus get detached and free.

All the best to you

johannes

While the content of my short comments to the article are not about me personally, these are all good advices, as are those in the article and also some others. But such advices are only suggestions. What is actually needed to be done to efficiently solve a specific problem is depending on the situation. Knowing that you are creating that what occurs does not automatically solve the problem, nor does it necessarily make the solution obvious. The way I have used to deal with my bullying situation, since most others available means failed (yes I have tried most of the advices, you name them), has been to cure my stress problem (no, there was never a psychosis, nor probably really severe PTSD) with yoga. This is not a magic over one night solution. However, it seems to work, step by step.

The root of the bullying problems in my life was that I did not fight back as a 6 year old kid at the school yard. I had a feeling that what happened was somehow my entire fault and that if I fought back I would somehow be punished. So when other boys wanted to prove their strength on someone I was the obvious choice. This did not mean that the other kids did not like me or that I was somehow socially excluded, but only that they did not respect me when it came to fighting as I did not strike back. What I should have done was obviously to strike back at some of those kids to defend my personal boundaries. Afterwards, the rest would probably have left me alone. But I did not want to deal with all this negative energy, which felt so strange to me, but only to turn my back on it and walk away. Mystress has been through that with me a few times.

It was similar at my workplace. My problem was never that I was making myself unpopular, but that I was exceptionally successful at a young age, which made a lot of people envious. I was then attacked with projections of being wicked, which were very far from the truth. Again, there was basically the same problem. The academic world was new to me (as was the school yard when I was six) and I did not want all this attention from being labeled one of the top scientist in my area at age of 31. Again, I did not know how to put an end to the negativity, here in the form of slander, backstabbing, misuse of power and so on. And again, I did not want to deal with all this negative energy, only to turn my back on it and walk away form it.

Still, I managed well. The situation wasn%rsquot worse than you could expect. I had no problem to make people feel well, motivate them and create a good atmosphere around me. When I was appointed manager for a small department I created a real great team which accomplished a lot. Then I was once drugged and reported to have done something inappropriate. There was a scandal in press and television, I was removed as manager and the open season for shooting at me began.

What happened was really not very important at all. I was never formally punished for what I did, nor where any other measures taken, but as the investigator at the university told me: "Your faculty has been very good at making a hen out of a feather!" He thought even reporting such an event was crazy. (I and my appointed victim also strongly opposed the investigation and even visited the headmaster of the university together to persuade him to drop the case. Actually I don%rsquot think she has yet forgiven those who reported the event and thus started all the mess around us, although she forgave me the first time we spoke about it after the event. Actually it made us good friends and we still are. Recently I supported her when she was through a tough experience similar to bullying.)

However, people started to listen to the defamation campaign and it got extremely successful. I am still, almost ten years later, excluded from most professional life in my area in my whole country. It is not that people dislike me (the woman who made up the worse false accusations was actually in love with me), it%rsquos more about being political correct.

Of course there are measures I could take to improve my relations with this or that person. And I have tested a lot of them. But somehow, nothing seems to really work. It is as if some major peace is missing. I don%rsquot claim to be able to intellectually analyze the complicated pattern of my bullying history to say what that peace is. Instead I relay on my gut feeling. And when the basic problem from the beginning was that I was afraid to defend my personal boundaries and intense yogic practices takes me to a place where I spontaneously start doing just that, I feel this might be this missing major peace.

Finally I just want to make one thing clear: I am certainly not stuck in negativity. When you have an open heart chakra it is very difficult to be. Nowadays I feel very good most of the time. But still, issues like this has to be dealt with to clean out the lower chakras.

: Putting aside all the questions about style, about the way of saying things and how that affects other people, about what you mean to say and what people actually understand, and how this determines the emotional dynamics between you and the people around you ... getting to the content:

: ... yes, I believe you, that you are going through unpleasant social experiences at your workplace. Yes, people are always playing "games" with each other, playing roles on the stage theater called social life. Especially colleagues in a stressfull working environment can pick very hard at each other, even using illegitimate means like spreading bad talk and lies about other persons, and doing it all with an air of politeness, smiling at you when they look you in the face and talking you down when you turn your back on them. This can hurt badly, even up to gastric ulcer.

: The question is, do you really want to change the situation you're in?
: Then maybe you can mangage to influence people in such a way that they stop defaming you, stop envying you, not by correcting them or bullying them but by making them feel fond of you, by attracting their sympathy, turning envy into admiration, make them say from their heart, hey, you actually are a nice guy, I like you, maybe we can help each other getting on by doing things together, as a team.
: "For the good of all and the harm of none."
: Maybe you can try to win their hearts, they really are insecure, concerned about you, not knowing how you will react on them, taking a position of defense, alienated. Try not to correct their behaviour or their words, try to change their attitude towards you. It will take some time, for sure a lot of china has been broken already. Find some allies, form alliances, build up a team. Make friends.
: But maybe you do not want that?

: In know, that's all easier said than done.
: Exercising the witness state might help: try to leave your role as an actor  for a moment and look at yourself from the director's seat (in your mind). Helpful also ofcourse: surrender all the crap to goddess and thus get detached and free.

: All the best to you

: johannes

:   I want to ask the other students, what was your first gut impression of the energy of Vyana's post? Not your ideals of how you want to treat people, but the instant negative or postive reactions you felt?  Did it seem like there is a "kick me" sign on his back that he put there? Something else? different?
:   He is projecting, what is your body's reaction to the projection, how does it make you want to behave towards him? Please give him some feedback about your own reaction so he can see himself reflected.

:    Blessings..  

First impression...  well it was hard to read.
The first sentence yes...  but then it went to a high lofty level.  Maybe superior isnt the right word...  but out of peoples reach.  I didnt get anything negative or postive, just blah blah blah.
Not a one on one conversation that expected a heartfelt connected response.

Jaxx

: I suppose I will think twice before I ever write something again%hellip (By the way, wings are secondary chakras of the heart, related to the ability to accept other people as they are.)

Playing the role of victim always creates more of the same.  Quite some time back I was heavily in that role and a couple people who knew what they were talking about (including Mystress) told me that "you are not the victim."  I didn't understand how that could be true, but I did a productive thing, which was to ask myself the question over and over, 'how could it be true that I'm not the victim?' and i stayed open to the answer.  It came with great wisdom.

One thing that can really help is to find out how we create these patterns in our lives.  Once you learn how to watch yourself in your bahavior, and to understand how it creates patterns, the watching itself causes the patterns to dissolve.  

So start watching yourself with great curiosity.

The other thing I recommend is to read a few books on the subject of Transpersonal Analysis.
1.  Games People Play  by Eric Berne
2.  Scripts People Live by Claude Steiner

There are others but these are a great start.

It's hard to admit that we can be wrong.  We want to be right.  We want desperately to be loved, and to be considered worthy.  When we don't feel that way we become defensive and display behavior that (to us) seems like we're standing up for ourselves...but to others comes across as angry and defensive.  Being willing to see ourselves the way other people see us is a powerful step to creating joy in life.  Take full responsibility.  

This is nothing new...it's what Mystress says over and over and over.  But sometimes it helps to come from another, or in different words.

Vyana, you are NOT the victim.  Be kind and patient with yourself and ask yourself the question, "How can it be true?"  and keep looking for answers.  Love yourself no matter what.  Ask yourself "How can I find people out there who treat me respectfully and who appreciate me?" and watch what happens.  Drop the "there are bad people everywhere" approach - you will ALWAYS find exactly what you are looking for.  

Ask yourself, "How can I love myself just the way I am, and attract other people who love me the way I am too?"

Relax.  Look for the beauty in life.  It's everywhere.  But you will not find it until you learn to love yourself.

Blessings
Eileen

You are right, Vyana.

We got to see the bigger picture, and we cannot be everybodies darling.
There is no right within the bigger wrong, isles of happiness by surrendering to the wrong, the war-crazed adrenalin-junkies.
The general setup of the actual world is war and no one can ignore it.

What we can do is maintain inner peace within war and underscore our commitment to peace.
And we can show this to the world where ever possible by gentleness, and ways of respecting Goddess in terms of health; healthy conduct which is in favor of our own health and the health of the others as well. Because in the end we are all ONE and there is no way to get freed as a single person( like is suggested in the "highlander serious" : "in the end only one can remain"; because it is right: "in the end we can only remain as ONE"

juergen.

: What is written here is rather basic, I think. It is also basically true, but it is not the whole truth and in my experience life is seldom that uncomplicated. I kind of miss %ldquothe other side%rdquo of things. If it was true that more social relations where always for the best, the people spending most time socializing with others would be the happiest. That is very far from the truth. For instance, if you socialize a lot people will start to make claims and try to direct your thoughts and actions and you get involved in a social game where even the most trivial matters becomes very important, which of course can create a lot of problems. Further, making a lot of sacrifices for others does not necessarily make other people respect you, rather they often tend to take you for granted. Everything has a back side, I suppose, and what is needed is some kind of equilibrium, which differs from person to person and from environment to environment. If you are working in a work-place where a majority of your colleagues are psychopaths, you would for instance most likely be better of if you not socialize with them at all, as that would only harm you. But if your colleagues are developed and balanced peoples with wings, you would most likely benefit a lot from spending time with them.

:  Every single time, the person who lost was the person who declared themselves the loser! (With a single exception, which was a scene with 3 women and one man, he was ejected immediately!!)

Hehe, another hint that poor Paris was doomed to fail !

Well one can try to become veeerrry compliant, however no guaranty.

Better direct focus to other games

Better, try first with only one, or still better: the One and Only, Divina.

juergen.

:   LOL! Vyana. Are you writing this to release it or to validate it?

:   One reason we called my improv teacher Guru (even though he hates that!) is that some of what he taught, was so profound.  

:   I recall one game that rocked my world. It was an improv game based on rejection and social dynamics. Any scene, four people. The goal is to stay in the group and get someone else rejected.

:   Every single time, the person who lost was the person who declared themselves the loser!  (With a single exception, which was a scene with 3 women and one man, he was ejected immediately!!)

:   I think he knew I was fragile in this area, because I was in a scene with 4 men... they competed with each other and I was safe as houses. Any four, any scene... each time, the rejection was self-rejection. In one case, a woman felt ignored because the other two were focused on the rejecting the fourth woman, and declared herself the loser when she was winning!

:    Kieth Johnstone sitting in the middle of the audience row, explaining body language to the other student... opening my eyes to my illusions of victimhood, that all those years of rejection, were self created... then we went for a break, and whispered to each other in astonishment, watching the same games being played out for real at the surrounding tables... talk about seeing my life flashing before my eyes!  

:   In the first few seconds when strangers meet, thousands of subtle body language signals are exchanged. Bodies talking to bodies, while the mind is unaware. The mind may even try to fake it, stand tall and look brave..  while the body is admitting "my person is very nervous but trying to hide it and appear brave so please be kind .. yadda yadda... and some else's body is saying "yeah that bad expderience happened to my person too, see?? .. but my person thinks they got over it by toughing it out, so tough is what your person is going to get because it is how my person shows love and respect..."   .. all in a millisecond, too fast for ego to follow, or even have a clue.

:   yap yap yap. In person, they never shut up... and that is just on the physical!! Add in empathy, and oy, too much information...

:   I sometimes get attached to one TV show or another, for a while. Lately, it has been "Due South" because the lead charachter is such a delightful reflection of my Divine Beloved. It is also the funniest show on TV... I know it is only a silly cop show comedy, but it is also a beautiful representation of the power of honour, courtesy and personal integrity. It slays me.. I am in love with an archetype!! LOL!!!

:    

: : What is written here is rather basic, I think. It is also basically true, but it is not the whole truth and in my experience life is seldom that uncomplicated.

: Complexity tends to be ego. Truth really is usually, a simple elegant thing.

: : I kind of miss %ldquothe other side%rdquo of things. If it was true that more social relations where always for the best, the people spending most time socializing with others would be the happiest. That is very far from the truth. For instance, if you socialize a lot people will start to make claims and try to direct your thoughts and actions and you get involved in a social game where even the most trivial matters becomes very important, which of course can create a lot of problems. Further, making a lot of sacrifices for others does not necessarily make other people respect you, rather they often tend to take you for granted.

: There is a great scene, in an episode where they are about to drown in a bank vault and the italian cop sidekick asks the superhero Canadian mountie ... demands, before they die, that the mountie admit that he sometimes feels unappreciated. It is hard for the mountie to do that, because it is not the point of courtesy!! You do it, for yourself, because it makes you a better person. More whole. It gives spiritual strength and personal power. It makes you bigger.

:   Giving your power away to fear, is not dharma.  

: > Everything has a back side, I suppose, and what is needed is some kind of equilibrium, which differs from person to person and from environment to environment. If you are working in a work-place where a majority of your colleagues are psychopaths, you would for instance most likely be better of if you not socialize with them at all, as that would only harm you. But if your colleagues are developed and balanced peoples with wings, you would most likely benefit a lot from spending time with them.

: Do you mind if I take a poll? I am kind of taking a risk, because if the results of the poll are negative feedback you might decide we are bullying and rejecting you, too... I have no control over that.

:   I want to ask the other students, what was your first gut impression of the energy of Vyana's post? Not your ideals of how you want to treat people, but the instant negative or postive reactions you felt?  Did it seem like there is a "kick me" sign on his back that he put there? Something else? different?
:   He is projecting, what is your body's reaction to the projection, how does it make you want to behave towards him? Please give him some feedback about your own reaction so he can see himself reflected.

:    Blessings..  

I am in love with an archetype!! LOL!!!

Your sparks of good temper are overwhelming !

I'm wondering how many archetypes for Divine Beloveds there may actually be ?

1st guess would be: basically 2wo !

juergen.

:   LOL! Vyana. Are you writing this to release it or to validate it?

:   One reason we called my improv teacher Guru (even though he hates that!) is that some of what he taught, was so profound.  

:   I recall one game that rocked my world. It was an improv game based on rejection and social dynamics. Any scene, four people. The goal is to stay in the group and get someone else rejected.

:   Every single time, the person who lost was the person who declared themselves the loser!  (With a single exception, which was a scene with 3 women and one man, he was ejected immediately!!)

:   I think he knew I was fragile in this area, because I was in a scene with 4 men... they competed with each other and I was safe as houses. Any four, any scene... each time, the rejection was self-rejection. In one case, a woman felt ignored because the other two were focused on the rejecting the fourth woman, and declared herself the loser when she was winning!

:    Kieth Johnstone sitting in the middle of the audience row, explaining body language to the other student... opening my eyes to my illusions of victimhood, that all those years of rejection, were self created... then we went for a break, and whispered to each other in astonishment, watching the same games being played out for real at the surrounding tables... talk about seeing my life flashing before my eyes!  

:   In the first few seconds when strangers meet, thousands of subtle body language signals are exchanged. Bodies talking to bodies, while the mind is unaware. The mind may even try to fake it, stand tall and look brave..  while the body is admitting "my person is very nervous but trying to hide it and appear brave so please be kind .. yadda yadda... and some else's body is saying "yeah that bad expderience happened to my person too, see?? .. but my person thinks they got over it by toughing it out, so tough is what your person is going to get because it is how my person shows love and respect..."   .. all in a millisecond, too fast for ego to follow, or even have a clue.

:   yap yap yap. In person, they never shut up... and that is just on the physical!! Add in empathy, and oy, too much information...

:   I sometimes get attached to one TV show or another, for a while. Lately, it has been "Due South" because the lead charachter is such a delightful reflection of my Divine Beloved. It is also the funniest show on TV... I know it is only a silly cop show comedy, but it is also a beautiful representation of the power of honour, courtesy and personal integrity. It slays me.. I am in love with an archetype!! LOL!!!

:    

: : What is written here is rather basic, I think. It is also basically true, but it is not the whole truth and in my experience life is seldom that uncomplicated.

: Complexity tends to be ego. Truth really is usually, a simple elegant thing.

: : I kind of miss %ldquothe other side%rdquo of things. If it was true that more social relations where always for the best, the people spending most time socializing with others would be the happiest. That is very far from the truth. For instance, if you socialize a lot people will start to make claims and try to direct your thoughts and actions and you get involved in a social game where even the most trivial matters becomes very important, which of course can create a lot of problems. Further, making a lot of sacrifices for others does not necessarily make other people respect you, rather they often tend to take you for granted.

: There is a great scene, in an episode where they are about to drown in a bank vault and the italian cop sidekick asks the superhero Canadian mountie ... demands, before they die, that the mountie admit that he sometimes feels unappreciated. It is hard for the mountie to do that, because it is not the point of courtesy!! You do it, for yourself, because it makes you a better person. More whole. It gives spiritual strength and personal power. It makes you bigger.

:   Giving your power away to fear, is not dharma.  

: > Everything has a back side, I suppose, and what is needed is some kind of equilibrium, which differs from person to person and from environment to environment. If you are working in a work-place where a majority of your colleagues are psychopaths, you would for instance most likely be better of if you not socialize with them at all, as that would only harm you. But if your colleagues are developed and balanced peoples with wings, you would most likely benefit a lot from spending time with them.

: Do you mind if I take a poll? I am kind of taking a risk, because if the results of the poll are negative feedback you might decide we are bullying and rejecting you, too... I have no control over that.

:   I want to ask the other students, what was your first gut impression of the energy of Vyana's post? Not your ideals of how you want to treat people, but the instant negative or postive reactions you felt?  Did it seem like there is a "kick me" sign on his back that he put there? Something else? different?
:   He is projecting, what is your body's reaction to the projection, how does it make you want to behave towards him? Please give him some feedback about your own reaction so he can see himself reflected.

:    Blessings..  

 I want to ask the other students, what was your first gut impression of the energy of Vyana's post? Not your ideals of how you want to treat people, but the instant negative or postive reactions you felt? Did it seem like there is a "kick me" sign on his back that he put there? Something else? different?
He is projecting, what is your body's reaction to the projection, how does it make you want to behave towards him? Please give him some feedback about your own reaction so he can see himself reflected.

My impression of Vyanas post was partly affirmative, with maybe a little 'kick him' inside

Firstly there are people who want not be treated friendly or who have a certain annoying didacting air around them, e.g. my male parent always try to convince me to the nazi ways( with my female parent not much better ), insofar Vyana is right and it's better to search for other focusses.
Next we have a common inheritance of being assholes and no one should throw with stones, so separation is just not justified.
Then however i have a problem with his concept of 'equilibrium'; if this were Mystress' concept She weren't ever available as a teacher to anyone here.
So where is the balance in his concept? This makes for a little kick

Now i'm taut for what the others have said...

juergen.

 Yeah! Examples can rock !

I knew this series as " A Mountie in Chicago ", i was introduced to it by my 2 lovely "adopted" nieces, when they still called me "Boss". Well, they were not always that lovely, often in quarrel with one another, but with regard to Paul Gross, they were one heart and soul. They literally enthused about him, and i learned to "cope" with this, at least after i had seen a few sequels, and  together with Ex, i'd seen a lot later.
Well, a good plot, and an intriguing Paul Gross, one must be fair; and when he's taking the Ladies "into paradise", he's also kind of "my man".

L O L !!!
(I know he'd tell the same of me)

juergen.

:
: ...on civility, good manners, and health.

Now i'm doing the same as with my reply to Vyana's article to this, and simply let my guts speak:

My impression of the article is one of a bad joke under disguise of

1) reasonable reasonings about good manners
2) scientific discoveries.

But chiefly, my impression is that of a farce, and a sort of brainwash into a status quo, which has no future.
What is behind (and thus in front) is an attempt to make the reader jump on a ghost-train.(Or keep them jumping there).

Pretending general normality; as if we were living in a general political situation, where it only takes good manners and social skills, sacrifices, putting oneself behind etc. to improve life( as if we just were about to put the finishing touch, as if this( accepting friendly manners ) would solve the major problems, as if this were not(partly) the source of our major social problems itself ).

We must think for the large picture: concurring each with the other for being liked by "higher brothers", is what is already going on, this is no civility ! It's lulling us downward.

Well then i'm not a fan of the monopoly game either, since early childhood.

Using bio-medical facts this way is a typical form of pseudo knowledge.

Yes good manners are paramount, empathy is also, and lots of other things are ok, but thinking of all these endorphins and serotonins in the same breath is rather crappy and sick. It's a pure cheap showmanship.

But we people have made it to Orwellian fascist living conditions, not only since Hitler, and it can be quite normal to react in a non-friendly way and get strokes and heart-attacks.

These are just part of our healing, indicating that we have went really wrong.

Showing us that we are wrong. Showing it to people  who haven't already got it, that we're going down hell.
Please no cosmetics here !
I have never realized, and won't ever realize that FST is about cosmetic patch ups.

I'm a bit upset now to see, how little awareness is there outside regarding political conditions, political responsibility, political philosophy; as if these were not the chief determinants of healthy living conditions, spiritually and physically.
Be a healer and ignoring this is much like bale water out a boat.
We must consider these issues simultaneously, even if this produces a little headache( although producing headache is not considered as a special value, or something to be appreciated ).

Being awake can also mean to be mean!

No! these last two paragraphs of the article are just too idealising, very pastoral: if these recipes havn't helped for the past milleniums they won't for the future.

Hell, those guys are hopping mad, and good intentions won't help anything ! I can't really understand: they have been tortured with good intentions since early childhood, to no avail.

Good manners are the goal, not the departure !

juergen.

%hellip interesting, interesting, so many opinions and different views on things %ndash it seems that looking at topics like manners, social behaviour etc. reveals how much our individual backgrounds differ from each other. Obvious, because we come from different parts of the world, from different educations, out of different social communities, with different cultural heritages.

Fascinating how we, despite thoroughly differing views on some things, nevertheless stand on a high common ground, all of us being ignited by the same spark, fueled by the same (K-)power, heading for the same light. We are so different and still we are all one, connected to each other through intangible channels of energy and %hellip well, by this akashic manifestation called the internet %hellip

the internet, which was originally designed for military purposes (indeed, there is a constant war going on in the world, people can be very bad, and ok, that may sometimes even be good, and yes, a good fight can be healthy and in the end for the good of all), but meanwhile the internet has gained a spiritual energy that has grown far beyond the limited horizons of military thinking, it has brought a better mutual understanding to the world, bridging social and cultural gaps, and also enabling us, here and now, to exchange views and opinions, in peace, and, when all is said and done, seeing ourselves when looking at each other %hellip
(am I being too ardent? Sorry, got carried away)
I like that