Hi,

I've read on the board that it is bad to fantasize about people sexually without their consent (if this is mentioned in a lesson, I have not come that far yet).

Does this also regard to wathing porn? Doesn't the people who act in the porn movies or pictures give their consent as a part of the nature of the job they are doing?

I do feel sometimes (more and more often) that I can feel that the person(s) in the porn picture or movie are not happy, and that makes me feel sad. So I stop watching.

But sometimes, when I'm really horny (often when I have a lot kundalini activity, like itchy heat around the two lower chakras) I get all perverted and surf the Internet for the same kinda stuff.

Is it strictly forbidden to fantasize about other creatures?
Why is it? Does it to any harm to others? What harm does it do to me?

Also, I have a another question. When I embarked on this spiritually path, I have noticed an increased interest of different kind of kinky sexual activities.

I like being in celibacy, but in my mind I fantasize about different activites, which I don't think I would be able to engage in in real life.

Is this a way for the lower chakras to clear them and make them more liberated?

How should I react on these kinky thoughts, repress them, ignore them, or simply "jack off" them?

Insights are greatly appreciated!

Edward

Just a specification:

With creatures I do mean other humans. Not plants,   trees, animals or anything like that.

I'm thank Goddess not that perverted. Well maybe plants.

Edward

: Is it strictly forbidden to fantasize about other
: creatures?
: Why is it? Does it to any harm to others? What harm : does it do to me?

Yes, Mystress speaks of astral rape in this context; on one location She says worship is ok, but not fantasize without consent.
So what's the difference?
Rape is a penetration into the Woman's privacy without Her consent; it's obtrusiveness.
I think obtrusiveness is not a rare trait especially in men, even men toward other men, a general typical male trait.
It's a whole lot of the crap that we shall have to surrender.
Obtrusive male crap comes often in the disguise of worship, but real worship has to contain respect and respect comes always down as respect before Goddess' Beautifulness Herself while these Women seem to burst with growing self-confidence.
Thos Women and Girls are often referred to as Goddesses themselves, because They really show the signs to be worshipped and when we do so, we feel quite humble, far from obtrusiveness.

It's likely the for men to be driven to masturbation, so much is clear;  while gazing at magazines, or later on when unwatched.
I have done these things too(of course), but did not really feel ok, when this involved direct integration of the respective Woman as an object of greed, when it became 'personal'.
On the other hand when masturbating was just for the arousal there has never existed such misgivings.

Now it's a fact that an experienced Witch, needs only the name and date of birth, so She can get information about that person, build up a connection; the same is true when She has a photo available or a picture.
So when looking at a Girl in a magazine or the internet, there exists that same sort of a connection; or throuch a movie or tv; so i wouldn't start wanking right in front of that Model, right?
But since there is a connection though, it wouldn't make great a difference; for the issue of fantasizing: it seems yet another category to me, and i think i'm not quite an expert for this, probably in younger years, maybe at puberty, ok a faint recollection: going into the details, caressing the Girl's ear, proceeding to Her sensual zones and so on, in one's thoughts.
Again such thoughts do also build that same astral connection which can considered no less real than direct contact. So it can be understood to speak of it as astral rape.

Models and Actresses may not always have been awakened yet and be knowing enough, to take protective measures, indeed so in the rarest cases, and it's also unlikely that They value petting and penetrations without being asked. Here is much need of clarification, and i only wish that Mystress is putting this in Her book and it becomes a real bestseller!

How can we escape this dilemma! We've got to become inventive, find out what works best for each one. As we are aware that it is Goddess Herself showing up in beautiful Women, in all Her bliss, pride and sadism as well, we may then find a way to direct our masturbations as a worship directly to Herself, in natural humbleness, as long as they are needed at all.

* This is only as i can best speak about it at the moment, so i join with Edward, that "Insights are greatly appreciated"!

Love, Juergen.

:
: Hi,

: I've read on the board that it is bad to fantasize about people sexually without their consent (if this is mentioned in a lesson, I have not come that far yet).

: Does this also regard to wathing porn? Doesn't the people who act in the porn movies or pictures give their consent as a part of the nature of the job they are doing?

: I do feel sometimes (more and more often) that I can feel that the person(s) in the porn picture or movie are not happy, and that makes me feel sad. So I stop watching.

: But sometimes, when I'm really horny (often when I have a lot kundalini activity, like itchy heat around the two lower chakras) I get all perverted and surf the Internet for the same kinda stuff.

: Is it strictly forbidden to fantasize about other creatures?
: Why is it? Does it to any harm to others? What harm does it do to me?

: Also, I have a another question. When I embarked on this spiritually path, I have noticed an increased interest of different kind of kinky sexual activities.

: I like being in celibacy, but in my mind I fantasize about different activites, which I don't think I would be able to engage in in real life.

: Is this a way for the lower chakras to clear them and make them more liberated?

: How should I react on these kinky thoughts, repress them, ignore them, or simply "jack off" them?

:
: Insights are greatly appreciated!

:
: Edward

:Here is much need of clarification, and i only wish that Mystress is putting this in Her book and it becomes a real bestseller!

Actually, you have summed it up very beautifully! Thank you, it was a pleasure to read it.

: How can we escape this dilemma! We've got to become inventive, find out what works best for each one. As we are aware that it is Goddess Herself showing up in beautiful Women, in all Her bliss, pride and sadism as well, we may then find a way to direct our masturbations as a worship directly to Herself, in natural humbleness, as long as they are needed at all.

Yes, Fire Serpent Tantra is the answer to the dilemma. When the Divine beloved shows up to seduce you, it is more than a fantasy!

: * This is only as i can best speak about it at the moment, so i join with Edward, that "Insights are greatly appreciated"!

I am not sure what you want more insights about. You have answered Edward's questions very thoroughly.

 Later lessons have more on the relationship with the Divine beloved, but for now keep practicing grounding and surrender. Become more transparent so when She appears you can surrender... because trying to control what she does will chase Her away, or make her a sock puppet of your ego.
 Blessings!  

: Love, Juergen.

Thank You, Mytress for the encouragement and advice, which i will follow with new energy; actually i have neglected grounding and surrender, You are right that i'm a bit head and reason-centered at the moment and have a tendency for it; it's bliss to do this course!

Love,   juergen

Juergen,

I really had to read your comments several times before it made sense in a way that it feels right,
and to make my ego accept it

I understand that it is wrong to project my sexual  energy on someone else without their consent. The same rule applies here as it is to sending energy to others.

I discussed the use of porn with a buddy of mine yesterday. We came to the conclusion that our generation of boys (the internet-generation) has actually "out-sourced" our sexuality to something unpersonal and materialistic. I know alot of guys who can't masturbate without porn.

It's time for me to take make sexuality back, and make love to myself instead, when masturbating.

I have noticed that when masturbating to porn I feel depleted, a litle bit depressed and even more  "thirsty" afterwards. However, if I masturbate on my own, I actually feel more energized and blissfull.

Since I'm gay I only think about other men, but I can easily convert from that what you write about women to men. Men are also Goddess' creations, in the same way as Women are Goddess manifested.

:It's a whole lot of the crap that we shall have :to surrender.

It has never occured to me to use Surrender and Ground when it comes to these types of problems.
I will integrate it now.

Thank's Juergen and Mystress! I love you

Edward

If its bad, you will ultimatly be warned in the power chakra or Goddess will give you a kick in the ass somehow. Karma will start flowing to you, then you should probably stop. If you wanted to look at porn and wack off, just watch it and don't exert force on the subject.

I understand that the laws of free will are not the same for everyone. Consult Goddess on your boundaries and the boundaries of others but the advice in this thread I think is a pretty good basis.

Scott

: I am not sure what you want more insights about.

One thing is that all this about sexual fantasies needs to be put into context, and maybe also into perspective. What makes those fantasies so special? Is it the mere content of energy in such thoughts? Or is it just our obsession with sex? How can something that is so natural be wrong? Basically we do as human beings live in a fantasy world. So, why shouldn%rsquot we have fantasies? And how can fantasies about sex hurt more than other fantasies?

We don%rsquot se the world as it is. What we perceive is mostly what we are programmed in our karmas and samsaras to se and what we consciously and subconsciously choice to project in each (fraction of a) second. I doubt the physical world has an existence of its own apart from our projections. (The answer to the classical question %ldquoWhen a tree is falling in the wood and nobody is there to hear the noise is there still a noise?%rdquo might simply be: %ldquoThere is no wood.%rdquo) So basically, we live in a world which we continuously recreate by our projections, and our fantasies are how we consider recreating this world in each second. Thus, having fantasies about anything is a basic trait of human existence. Then; how can it be bad?

Falling in love is, for instance, a natural part of human existence. When we fall in love, we don%rsquot really fall in love with an external person, but with our internal image of this person. To create this image, we need our fantasy. Sexual fantasies are, I suppose, not necessary, but they do never the less form a natural part of the process of falling in love. Are these then bad? I seriously doubt they necessarily are. On the contrary, they can be part of something really beautiful. Personally, I perceive love between man and woman, which might last for almost a life time, as a very precious part of the experience of being human.

Other fantasies can be based on fear rather than love and trust. These are fantasies by humans tortured by fear from circumstances such as violence, war and crime. These are for instance fantasies about killing and torturing other people, physically or emotionally. Such fantasies have inherent negative qualities, while the inherent qualities of sexual fantasies are basically good.

Actually, I would suggest sexual fantasies are basically good %ndash and not only good, but really good %ndash due to their inherent qualities of love and trust and attraction and of worship of beauty, which are some of the most valuable feelings in human experience. Then sex is also Goddess force in creation. So, how can these fantasies really be bad?

Partly, I suppose this is a matter of what other feelings we project with the good feelings of love, trust and worship. There might be other parts of the message, which are not equally good.

Partly, this is also a matter concerning lack of mutuality. You project your fantasies onto another being without their consent and you end up with a %ldquospiritual rape%rdquo. But how can there be lack of consent? We form our own experiences with the choices we make. At a lower level, nothing physical has really happened; at a somewhat higher level, it%rsquos all about the choices we make (and even higher up there are of course only one). How can a higher self be raped %ndash if it does not want to? Normally, I would guess this is not possible. If I think of a girl with lust I can most often kind of sense if these thoughts are welcome or not. If they are not, my thoughts would just fall dead. But I suppose some higher selves might be too affected by karma to defend themselves? And when it comes to porn actresses, I suppose there is some kind of consent, which follows from the aim of pornography, but it might still be unethical to take advantage of such consent.

Actually, I think it%rsquos even more about the increased power to form our reality and influence other beings which we gain from being awake and which increase as we proceed along the spiritual path. If this girl does not protest, it might be because my thoughts have the power to manipulate her feelings. So even if there is consent, it would still be similar to a rape. And to me, there would be a set-back because of the karma I would get from her. So, in the end, it%rsquos also about what we need to do or to abstain from to stay and proceed on the spiritual path. I don%rsquot think sexual fantasies are the worse fantasies we could have, but the fantasies we are most likely to have along the path and probably the most powerful fantasies to.

This is only my best understanding of this subject for now. I suppose I might have misunderstood half of it. And there are still some issues which confuse me. Sometimes there due up girls in my mind, which I am rather sure I have never met and which do much likely not exist. Is there still harm in such fantasies? Sexual fantasies might also come spontaneously, as from outside, e.g. when I am close to falling asleep. Or they might, of course, come in dreams. Do these come from me or from others? (In the sense relevant here, I mean.) And sometimes, I get the feeling that it might be DB appearing in the form of a girl I know, and if that is so, I would of course not want to turn her down. I suppose I will eventually be able to tell for sure, but I cannot do that yet.

Hi Edward,

there is a saying that men cannot be raped at all, so eyem not so quite shure anymore, .... ok, just kind of a joke!

: I have noticed that when masturbating to porn I feel depleted, a litle bit depressed and even more  "thirsty" afterwards. However, if I masturbate on my own, I actually feel more energized and blissfull.

To follow your Bliss is certainly one cornerstone of FST!

Of interest here may be a Quote of Mystress which She statet in this thread, but not in italics as usually, so to not get lost hereitis

Yes, Fire Serpent Tantra is the answer to the dilemma. When the Divine beloved shows up to seduce you, it is more than a fantasy!

: Thank's Juergen and Mystress! I love you

:
: Edward

love you too,

Juergen

: Hi Edward,

: there is a saying that men cannot be raped at all, so eyem not so quite shure anymore, .... ok, just kind of a joke!

Yeah, not true in life. Men get raped as children, and in prison... in some prisons men get their front teeth knocked out so they cannot defend against oral rape... and men get raped with date rape drugs. Rape is *not* soley a crime against women... nor is it really sexual, it is a crime of power and humiliation.  

: : I have noticed that when masturbating to porn I feel depleted, a litle bit depressed and even more  "thirsty" afterwards.

Yes it is empty... and not in a zen way. Sexual junk food.

: However, if I masturbate on my own, I actually feel more energized and blissfull.

Yeah. "Acts of love and pleasure, serve the Goddess." It is true. Just enjoy pleasure for its own sake, the body responds to touch and sensation, without a need for mental images. If it doesn't, then you have become numbed which is an even bigger reason to focus on the body and regain instincts.

 As part of my own path, I lurked for several months on the alt.sex newsgroups, reading every kind of fantasy story, until I lost my distaste and could accept all the authors and their shared thoughts, all with compassion, a recognition of thier humanity. It was my version of meditating in the cremation grounds.

 On a related note... it is true guys who are too porn fed can get addicted and find it hard to be with women. Performance anxiety is rampant. Porn is instant gratification anytime and women are not usually like that.

 There are women's books out now like "How to make love like a porn star" for women who are trying to compete... they have lost their men to the internet. It is Darwin .. guys who don't date or marry, won't breed.
 

: To follow your Bliss is certainly one cornerstone of FST!

Yeah, there is a sensation of fulfillment in the heart and power chakra when your actions are dharma... in alighnment with your soul path and Goddess will for you. FST level 1 has a lot of karma clearing to blow the dust off so you can feel the navigation.

: Of interest here may be a Quote of Mystress which She statet in this thread, but not in italics as usually, so to not get lost hereitis

:

Yes, Fire Serpent Tantra is the answer to the dilemma. When the Divine beloved shows up to seduce you, it is more than a fantasy!

Now it is italic...

: : Thank's Juergen and Mystress! I love you

: :
: : Edward

: love you too,

:
: Juergen

Blessings!!

:
: Hi,

: I've read on the board that it is bad to fantasize about people sexually without their consent (if this is mentioned in a lesson, I have not come that far yet).

Yes, it is a later lesson.

: Does this also regard to wathing porn? Doesn't the people who act in the porn movies or pictures give their consent as a part of the nature of the job they are doing?

It is unlikely they are intuitively aware enough to know the effect it will have, and many turn to porn acting out of poverty.  A lot of strippers are single moms! There are exceptions.

 Also, remember that fantasies and not always kind, many men have anger at women and release it along with the semen.

 I had an experience once, sitting at my computer and feeling sensations in my labia as if needles were being pushed through. Two days later a persistent internet stalker sent me a bloody photo of a yoni with the labia sewn together. I later forwarded it to the FBI.  

: I do feel sometimes (more and more often) that I can feel that the person(s) in the porn picture or movie are not happy, and that makes me feel sad. So I stop watching.

Exactly so. It is the product of desperaton and low self esteem, and that vibe comes through.

: But sometimes, when I'm really horny (often when I have a lot kundalini activity, like itchy heat around the two lower chakras) I get all perverted and surf the Internet for the same kinda stuff.

: Is it strictly forbidden to fantasize about other creatures?
: Why is it? Does it to any harm to others? What harm does it do to me?

You are projecting your will onto them, making them your puppet, in your mind. It is a humiliation, objectifying them and not respecting their free will.. so it makes karma.

 Fantasy, it is the magical power of creative visualization. The power of the astral, the dreamtime. When you fantasize about someone, it is the same as if you are casting a spell upon them.

 It is OK, if it is consensual... can even be fun!

 Speaking of creatures, ... some domesticated animals have a higher agreement to submission of thier will to a human, in exchange for care. Recent diseases in domestic animals - mad cow disease and to a lesser degree, bird flu can be seen as a product of poor quality care for animals... a karmic expression of a broken agreement.

 There is a similar agreement between parents and children, until the child is of age... and good parenting will guide a child with love, without breaking the will of the child.  

: Also, I have a another question. When I embarked on this spiritually path, I have noticed an increased interest of different kind of kinky sexual activities.

: I like being in celibacy, but in my mind I fantasize about different activites, which I don't think I would be able to engage in in real life.

: Is this a way for the lower chakras to clear them and make them more liberated?

Yes, often.

: How should I react on these kinky thoughts, repress them, ignore them, or simply "jack off" them?

Don't repress them, observe them, let them flow without judgement. If it feels like jacking off will help release them then do so with some detachment:  it can also embed them deeper because you are giving the content more energy of attention.

 Blessings!

:
: Insights are greatly appreciated!

:
: Edward

• http://kundalini-teacher.com/symptoms/lust.html">http://kundalini-teacher.com/symptoms/lust.html

: Yeah, not true in life. Men get raped as :children, and in prison... in some prisons men :get their front teeth knocked out so they cannot :defend against oral rape... and men get raped :with date rape drugs. Rape is *not* soley a crime :against women... nor is it really sexual, it is a :crime of power and humiliation.  

I can vouch for that.

When I was 13 years old I was raped by 50 year old  man. Never felt so dirty afterwards.

This memory just came up now, time to surrendering it.

From the age 14 to 18 I was living with a 8 year older man. He forced himself to fuck me every other night for fours years. He used to say that if I didn't have sex with him it was because I didn't love him, and because of that he would throw me out of the house.

Because my mother was schizophrenic and in mental hospital, I knew that I didn't have anywhere else to stay. Did not have any other family. So I choose to stay with him for fours years.

I learned to use different excuses for not getting  fucked, and one them was that my stomach was upset. After a while it actually became chronically upset, and now 6 years later my digestive system still does not work very well.

There's an unbalanced focus here on men doing things against women. I think it's important
to not neglect that women can also behave badly against men. I have experienced that women harass me sexually when they find out that I'm gay, and not interested in them.

: Yeah. "Acts of love and pleasure, serve the :Goddess." It is true. Just enjoy pleasure for its :own sake, the body responds to touch and :sensation, without a need for mental images. If :it doesn't, then you have become numbed which is :an even bigger reason to focus on the body and :regain instincts.

I think that the body has become numb in some ways, but I will work on that from now on.

: :

Yes, Fire Serpent Tantra is the answer to the dilemma. When the Divine beloved shows up to seduce you, it is more than a fantasy!

Yes, but does the DB always manifest in the opposite gender, and does it always try do seduce?

Because, I could never imagine to have sex with a woman. I just see women as sisters, mothers or aunts.

I have however noticed a tall woman with blond long hair with a red leather suit. She is strict, but nice. But I could never imagine to have sex her! Anyhow, I guess it's the DB showing up.

: Blessings!!

It feels really good to get some of this trash out out of my body and mind.

Genereally I am very happy for all the things I have experienced. If it was not because of the special combination of different experiences in my life, I don't think that I would be person I am. today. I feel really good about the person now

Edward

I hesitate to put this under the heading regarding pornography and perversions. However, it is a kind of clearification to my view on the subject of sexual fantasies.

As I perceive it, the fantasies as such are not important. Nor is it only about my body and its reactions. It is more like there is a loving and sexually arosed presence; some kind of spiritual lovemaking that differs from physical lovemaking.

This morning, I experienced this really clear. I was lying in bed thinking about the girl I wrote about here before, who is in love with me but who is still making crazy false accusations against me. I was thinking about how I really liked her and how fun it was to be with her, how sorry I was that our relationship went crazy and how I wanted it to get back to normal.

I also remembered how I was so overwhelmed with a strong feeling of love and lust right after the higher self negotiation I did with her higher self this summer, that I actually paniced and closed down the connection to her higher self.

Now I thought that maybe I could ask my guardian angels to connect me to her higher self to communicate directly to it and thus try to sort out our problems. I never decided to do that. On the contrary I had almost decided that it was too risky, when I felt how her higher self was already there and how my power chakra and probably also the second chakra was very gently fed with the same kind of feelings that I was so overwhelmed with this summer. I felt as if there was a flow of energy, almost like healing, with very strong qualities of love and lust. These feelings were strong and it felt very good. Still the energy was very gentle, and it only almost triggered my power chakra blockage. It was as if the flow of energy was kept right below the threshold where it would have been triggered. This was a truely wonderful experience.

: Now I thought that maybe I could ask my guardian angels to connect me to her higher self to communicate directly to it and thus try to sort out our problems. I never decided to do that. On the contrary I had almost decided that it was too risky, when I felt how her higher self was already there and how my power chakra and probably also the second chakra was very gently fed with the same kind of feelings that I was so overwhelmed with this summer. I felt as if there was a flow of energy, almost like healing, with very strong qualities of love and lust. These feelings were strong and it felt very good. Still the energy was very gentle, and it only almost triggered my power chakra blockage. It was as if the flow of energy was kept right below the threshold where it would have been triggered. This was a truely wonderful experience.

On the path of surrender, sometimes we are called to do things. Sometimes desperation is born of fear, and then it is good to hesitate and turn inward. Sometimes Goddess wants to hug someone, and we are the vessel, or the recipient of that... as Goddess Wills.
 I teach your ego to avoid places where ego makes a mess, but what comes of a state of surrender is dharma. We don't judge what Goddess does... better that ego not even spend too much time trying to understand it, and the ripples.

 Blessings...

This I had to read many times to understand it! But I suppose I should not strive to make things like this happen %ndash when it is not consensual at the ego level %ndash but when they happen spontaneously, as it did, it is okay to let it happen. Then I should just enjoy it and not think too much of it or its implications at the ego level.

: : Now I thought that maybe I could ask my guardian angels to connect me to her higher self to communicate directly to it and thus try to sort out our problems. I never decided to do that. On the contrary I had almost decided that it was too risky, when I felt how her higher self was already there and how my power chakra and probably also the second chakra was very gently fed with the same kind of feelings that I was so overwhelmed with this summer. I felt as if there was a flow of energy, almost like healing, with very strong qualities of love and lust. These feelings were strong and it felt very good. Still the energy was very gentle, and it only almost triggered my power chakra blockage. It was as if the flow of energy was kept right below the threshold where it would have been triggered. This was a truely wonderful experience.

: On the path of surrender, sometimes we are called to do things. Sometimes desperation is born of fear, and then it is good to hesitate and turn inward. Sometimes Goddess wants to hug someone, and we are the vessel, or the recipient of that... as Goddess Wills.
:   I teach your ego to avoid places where ego makes a mess, but what comes of a state of surrender is dharma. We don't judge what Goddess does... better that ego not even spend too much time trying to understand it, and the ripples.

:   Blessings...