Hi again.

I have another dilemma that has been coming up in my mind a lot the past couple weeks.

My family is what would probably be considered a rather conservative family. My brother, his wife and their three beautiful little girls are the ones I'm closest to. In fact, my brother's wife is my best friend now.

My brother and his wife are both Christians, in the sense that they believe, but don't really bother with church.

While I have been a very spiritual person since I was in my early teens, the rest of my family have always been rather reserved about spiritual matters. Back when I first became a Christian, I was the first in my family to do so, and most of them told me they found my enthusiasm and unquestioning belief in God to be rather niaive and childish. They would argue with me and give me those looks that undoubtedly said, "Alright, whatever you say, I'm not going to bother arguing with you about this any more, because you are obviously psycho." lol

I was definitely not the most mature of people when I was in my late teens and early twenties, and though my brother and his wife later came to believe in God, they had very little respect for me at that time in my life, and they believed my spirituality was just a testament to my lack of ability to grasp reality. But, our paths separated for many years and that lack of respect didn't matter much to me during that separation.

But we've gotten close again over the past five or six years, and so now, their opinions of me do matter to me.

Also, I have a close friend who is an older lady and likes to put herself into the "mother" role with me a lot. She's a wonderful person, and an x-hippy, free spirited kind of person, yet, she was raised a Christian. So, though she occassionally believes things that would be considered "new age" she always falls back to the fact that she's a christian and because she knows that I was a bible-thumper for so long, she assumes that I do the same, and that beyond all this crazy new-age mumbo jumbo, she and I know "the actual truth".

So, I gave you all that background to say this:

My beliefs have changed a good deal since my bible-thumping days. I might not say I'm no longer a Christian, but ... well, I don't know if I am. I have beliefs now that put Christianity into a different light, not a bad one, but just different. I don't think I want to be labeled as a christian because that seems ... I dunno, it just doesn't begin to touch upon the beliefs that I now hold. But these people who are so important to me, these people whose opinions of me matter to me... If I were to tell them what I truly believe, I know from experience, I would completely lose their respect.

I have heard each of them talk to me about others who have beliefs that they consider to be "new-age". They speak of these people who hold such beliefs with contempt for their ridiculous views, and condemn them for not having a grasp of "reality".

Now, I know that their views of what is real, don't have to mesh with mine, and their opinions of the actual beliefs themselves don't really concern me, because they have to figure out their own spirital path. But what does concern me is that I feel like I have to live a sort of double life around these people, because of their opinions of the people who hold some of the same beliefs that I now do.

I feel like I can't really be free with who I am or what I think or want or feel, because if I let on to them that I think/believe/feel as I do, they will write me off as another one of those loonies who believes in crystals and vibrations and incents. ... (For the record, thats sarcasm there. I do happen to hold beliefs about energies and objects that magnify them, etc.) To them, this stuff is non-sense, and anybody who believes in them is a fool.

So, my dilemma is that I have friends and family who more or less expect me to be "normal" by their standards, and who would very likely lose all respect for me if I did not play the role they are forcing on me. ... How can I be honestly true to myself when I feel like if I surrender completely to all these new-ish beliefs I'm holding, and not hide behind the facade they have put on me, I know I'll lose their respect and possibly their presence in my life?

I've realized recently that the fear of their rejection often ungrounds me when I think about being myself and surrendering completely to things like the divine beloved and goddess. I feel like this fear is a straight jacket that is keeping me confined. But, if I were to throw off all concern for their opinions of me and live as I want to live, and be who I want to be... If I chose to not allow their opinions of me to hold such sway over me, that seems to me to be the same thing as relinquishing my family ties.

I'd also like to respectfully ask that you refrain from responding to this with anything that suggests that losing them would be ok, or that it would be their loss or anything of the sort. These are people that I love and don't want to lose or become estranged from.

Any suggestions or views that might help?

Thanks!

Namaste,

Kimberly

I found a middle way with my family. Maybe its different for you. But for me, I look at the application of these things that I have learned. When I show off to my family now what I say comes out as being very smart, logical or wise and applicable to the problem at hand. I don't say "well... these are my beliefs about God so this is what I am going to do." I leave the spiritual part ouf of it. I was also used to be a salesman (wanna buy a merkaba? JK).

For me, beliefs are just coincidental. The real test is the result of my actions.

Its tough tho.. for me to sit here and say this is what you should do. I don't really understand the magnitude of everything that you are dealing with. In my family, I talk about spirituality once every few months when it is pertanent to whatever is in the news, then we forget about it.

I am also only 24, perhaps my parents think "oh that young snapper is just trying to find himself."

If you can reason a way or see a way through the situation that makes sense to you in your head, then you can probably get through it.

All the best,
Scott

: So, my dilemma is that I have friends and family who more or less expect me to be "normal" by their standards, and who would very likely lose all respect for me if I did not play the role they are forcing on me. ... How can I be honestly true to myself when I feel like if I surrender completely to all these new-ish beliefs I'm holding, and not hide behind the facade they have put on me, I know I'll lose their respect and possibly their presence in my life?

: I found a middle way with my family. Maybe its different for you. But for me, I look at the application of these things that I have learned. When I show off to my family now what I say comes out as being very smart, logical or wise and applicable to the problem at hand. I don't say "well... these are my beliefs about God so this is what I am going to do." I leave the spiritual part ouf of it. I was also used to be a salesman (wanna buy a merkaba? JK).

Most of the time, I can get along with everybody by simply not mentioning my beliefs and keeping spiritualty out of our conversations. I'm generally not one who goes around talking about my spiritual beliefs in relation to every subject on earth anyway. I'm not overly vocal about what I believe even with my very spiritual husband, who is -always- talking about spiritual things.

But sometimes comments will be made about certain "freaks" or "morons" or whatever who believe in "that crazy energy stuff". Or somebody will say something that to me, seems very limited in thinking or very narrow minded. They will say these things to me or around me as if they -know- I believe as they do. They include me in their judgemental conversations with the air of expecting me to agree with them, which I don't. But to openly disagree with them, imply I disagree with them, or even simply remain quiet and hope the subject passes before I'm forced to comment, none of these would be allowed to pass without them questioning me about it.

I'm not saying that these are mean or bad people, they aren't. They just have very strict and judgemental views about a lot of things, and believe that anybody with a brain would believe as they do.

I don't want to contradict them and cause a rift, but I also don't like the light they cast on me by expecting me to believe as they do... But not doing anything makes me feel as if I'm hiding or not being true to myself, ya know?

Thanks for the response Scott!

: I don't want to contradict them and cause a rift, but I also don't like the light they cast on me by expecting me to believe as they do... But not doing anything makes me feel as if I'm hiding or not being true to myself, ya know?

Its tough for me to really get into what you are experiencing. It seems like there is a lot of stuff going on at once. Like every time it comes up there is a million things that have to be dealt with. I like Mystress's article on the witness which gives her insight. She has some good experiences which may help you.

If it were me I would likely talk about it until the sun came back up, since they keep on bringing it up. But thats my personality.

 
Hello, Kimberly:

 Interesting questions you pose today!

 It is part of the nature of the ego, that it is a social mask we wear to get love and approval. The problem is, when we try to be loved by presenting ourselves as what we are not, we do not get to be loved for who we are. You starve for love from behind the mask, afraid to take it off lest even the illusion of love be shattered.

 You have to be true to yourself, you know this... and it takes discernment and discretion to be true to yourself without being aggressive towards the spiritual beliefs of others.

 Sometimes there is a middle ground, you can speak to others in their language to turn their judgments back on them, or offer new insights. Some handy phrases like "I don't think Jesus would judge them" come in handy... and they will be inspired, if you speak from the heart. Remember you have wings!

 My family does not understand my process either, and I recognize that they cannot, and it is foolish of me to expect them to. They have not been the places I have been, they cannot see the world as I do, on all levels.

 Recently I noticed how often my mother tries to start arguments with me. I was surprised by it. I knew we often ended up agruing but I would get knocked out of body so quickly I could not remember how it started. I've also noticed she would rather tell me about her life than hear about mine, which I don't take personally because I think is typical of old folks. Mom is 81.

 I have become adept at changing the topic and heading off an argument by asking her about her garden, or whatever... Basic charm school lesson #1, or  Dale Carnegie. People who get to tell you all about themselves, will find you very charming.

 I don't much care what we talk about, so long as we are not fighting. For me, she is always as close as my thoughts, but she is not sensitive to my astral visits and misses me.

  Blessings...

: Hi again.

: I have another dilemma that has been coming up in my mind a lot the past couple weeks.

: My family is what would probably be considered a rather conservative family. My brother, his wife and their three beautiful little girls are the ones I'm closest to. In fact, my brother's wife is my best friend now.

: My brother and his wife are both Christians, in the sense that they believe, but don't really bother with church.

: While I have been a very spiritual person since I was in my early teens, the rest of my family have always been rather reserved about spiritual matters. Back when I first became a Christian, I was the first in my family to do so, and most of them told me they found my enthusiasm and unquestioning belief in God to be rather niaive and childish. They would argue with me and give me those looks that undoubtedly said, "Alright, whatever you say, I'm not going to bother arguing with you about this any more, because you are obviously psycho." lol

: I was definitely not the most mature of people when I was in my late teens and early twenties, and though my brother and his wife later came to believe in God, they had very little respect for me at that time in my life, and they believed my spirituality was just a testament to my lack of ability to grasp reality. But, our paths separated for many years and that lack of respect didn't matter much to me during that separation.

: But we've gotten close again over the past five or six years, and so now, their opinions of me do matter to me.

: Also, I have a close friend who is an older lady and likes to put herself into the "mother" role with me a lot. She's a wonderful person, and an x-hippy, free spirited kind of person, yet, she was raised a Christian. So, though she occassionally believes things that would be considered "new age" she always falls back to the fact that she's a christian and because she knows that I was a bible-thumper for so long, she assumes that I do the same, and that beyond all this crazy new-age mumbo jumbo, she and I know "the actual truth".

: So, I gave you all that background to say this:

: My beliefs have changed a good deal since my bible-thumping days. I might not say I'm no longer a Christian, but ... well, I don't know if I am. I have beliefs now that put Christianity into a different light, not a bad one, but just different. I don't think I want to be labeled as a christian because that seems ... I dunno, it just doesn't begin to touch upon the beliefs that I now hold. But these people who are so important to me, these people whose opinions of me matter to me... If I were to tell them what I truly believe, I know from experience, I would completely lose their respect.

: I have heard each of them talk to me about others who have beliefs that they consider to be "new-age". They speak of these people who hold such beliefs with contempt for their ridiculous views, and condemn them for not having a grasp of "reality".

: Now, I know that their views of what is real, don't have to mesh with mine, and their opinions of the actual beliefs themselves don't really concern me, because they have to figure out their own spirital path. But what does concern me is that I feel like I have to live a sort of double life around these people, because of their opinions of the people who hold some of the same beliefs that I now do.

: I feel like I can't really be free with who I am or what I think or want or feel, because if I let on to them that I think/believe/feel as I do, they will write me off as another one of those loonies who believes in crystals and vibrations and incents. ... (For the record, thats sarcasm there. I do happen to hold beliefs about energies and objects that magnify them, etc.) To them, this stuff is non-sense, and anybody who believes in them is a fool.

: So, my dilemma is that I have friends and family who more or less expect me to be "normal" by their standards, and who would very likely lose all respect for me if I did not play the role they are forcing on me. ... How can I be honestly true to myself when I feel like if I surrender completely to all these new-ish beliefs I'm holding, and not hide behind the facade they have put on me, I know I'll lose their respect and possibly their presence in my life?

: I've realized recently that the fear of their rejection often ungrounds me when I think about being myself and surrendering completely to things like the divine beloved and goddess. I feel like this fear is a straight jacket that is keeping me confined. But, if I were to throw off all concern for their opinions of me and live as I want to live, and be who I want to be... If I chose to not allow their opinions of me to hold such sway over me, that seems to me to be the same thing as relinquishing my family ties.

: I'd also like to respectfully ask that you refrain from responding to this with anything that suggests that losing them would be ok, or that it would be their loss or anything of the sort. These are people that I love and don't want to lose or become estranged from.

: Any suggestions or views that might help?

: Thanks!

: Namaste,

: Kimberly

Hey Kimberley,

I can definitely relate to what you're saying.  I was raised as a conservative christian, and all of my conversations with my mom end up on spiritual topics.  It is very much a part of my family's life, and everyone else who doesn't believe as they do, is wrong.  When I'm in a situation where they are talking down about someone else, I find a wonderful reply that works well is to smile softly and reply to whatever question it is that's been asked "it's not my place to judge.  That's between them and God."  I may get a raised eyebrow, but still, it's hard for them to prod me further, because really, it is between them and God.  Spirituality is a very individual thing, and I feel like I'm being true to my own beliefs, without causing unnecessary arguments.  

Another one of my beliefs is that our purpose in life is to love.  And in the bible, Jesus says that all of the scriptures are fulfilled by two commands - to love God and love others.  So for me, that's what the whole bible boils down to - love God, love others.  So I can be true to my purpose in life (to love God/others) which is a shared purpose with my very conservative family.  And when my family does critize other people, I can ask them "is that being loving?"  

I believe we have to earn the right to share our beliefs with others - they need to see something in us that they want, and ask for it, rather than us going around trying to convince them that our way is right, whether it be about christianty or embracing Goddess.  I've selectively shared things in small doses with my family, but I don't feel the need to tell them everything that I'm learning and exploring.  As they ask, wanting to know why I'm so happy these days, I share.  

Sometimes it's hard to not share with them, because the things we're learning with k is so amazing and exciting, but that's what places like this, and the k list are for - to share with people that do understand and can be excited with you.

So i guess what works for me is to focus on the things I do have in common spiritually with my family, like loving others, and putting God (or Goddess) as the most important aspect of my life.  I did mention once that I thought God was bigger than gender and you could say God was she/he/it - that it was all the same, and that didn't go over too well. ;-P  So I keep the fact that I ask Goddess for grace each day to myself.

Don't know if that helps at all, but know you're not alone.  It is a really interesting path when you don't fit into any of the defined "religious" catagories anymore.  But oh well, I guess Goddess thinks we can handle it, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

jaime

: I don't want to contradict them and cause a rift, but I also don't like the light they cast on me by expecting me to believe as they do... But not doing anything makes me feel as if I'm hiding or not being true to myself, ya know?

Welcome to the Club! : )

Through these lessons, I'm finding Carl Jung to be an inspiration. He seemed to have the same problem, but being so well known it was on a much larger scale.

: Hi again.

: I have another dilemma that has been coming up in my mind a lot the past couple weeks.

: My family is what would probably be considered a rather conservative family. My brother, his wife and their three beautiful little girls are the ones I'm closest to. In fact, my brother's wife is my best friend now.

: My brother and his wife are both Christians, in the sense that they believe, but don't really bother with church.

: While I have been a very spiritual person since I was in my early teens, the rest of my family have always been rather reserved about spiritual matters. Back when I first became a Christian, I was the first in my family to do so, and most of them told me they found my enthusiasm and unquestioning belief in God to be rather niaive and childish. They would argue with me and give me those looks that undoubtedly said, "Alright, whatever you say, I'm not going to bother arguing with you about this any more, because you are obviously psycho." lol

: I was definitely not the most mature of people when I was in my late teens and early twenties, and though my brother and his wife later came to believe in God, they had very little respect for me at that time in my life, and they believed my spirituality was just a testament to my lack of ability to grasp reality. But, our paths separated for many years and that lack of respect didn't matter much to me during that separation.

: But we've gotten close again over the past five or six years, and so now, their opinions of me do matter to me.

: Also, I have a close friend who is an older lady and likes to put herself into the "mother" role with me a lot. She's a wonderful person, and an x-hippy, free spirited kind of person, yet, she was raised a Christian. So, though she occassionally believes things that would be considered "new age" she always falls back to the fact that she's a christian and because she knows that I was a bible-thumper for so long, she assumes that I do the same, and that beyond all this crazy new-age mumbo jumbo, she and I know "the actual truth".

: So, I gave you all that background to say this:

: My beliefs have changed a good deal since my bible-thumping days. I might not say I'm no longer a Christian, but ... well, I don't know if I am. I have beliefs now that put Christianity into a different light, not a bad one, but just different. I don't think I want to be labeled as a christian because that seems ... I dunno, it just doesn't begin to touch upon the beliefs that I now hold. But these people who are so important to me, these people whose opinions of me matter to me... If I were to tell them what I truly believe, I know from experience, I would completely lose their respect.

: I have heard each of them talk to me about others who have beliefs that they consider to be "new-age". They speak of these people who hold such beliefs with contempt for their ridiculous views, and condemn them for not having a grasp of "reality".

: Now, I know that their views of what is real, don't have to mesh with mine, and their opinions of the actual beliefs themselves don't really concern me, because they have to figure out their own spirital path. But what does concern me is that I feel like I have to live a sort of double life around these people, because of their opinions of the people who hold some of the same beliefs that I now do.

: I feel like I can't really be free with who I am or what I think or want or feel, because if I let on to them that I think/believe/feel as I do, they will write me off as another one of those loonies who believes in crystals and vibrations and incents. ... (For the record, thats sarcasm there. I do happen to hold beliefs about energies and objects that magnify them, etc.) To them, this stuff is non-sense, and anybody who believes in them is a fool.

: So, my dilemma is that I have friends and family who more or less expect me to be "normal" by their standards, and who would very likely lose all respect for me if I did not play the role they are forcing on me. ... How can I be honestly true to myself when I feel like if I surrender completely to all these new-ish beliefs I'm holding, and not hide behind the facade they have put on me, I know I'll lose their respect and possibly their presence in my life?

: I've realized recently that the fear of their rejection often ungrounds me when I think about being myself and surrendering completely to things like the divine beloved and goddess. I feel like this fear is a straight jacket that is keeping me confined. But, if I were to throw off all concern for their opinions of me and live as I want to live, and be who I want to be... If I chose to not allow their opinions of me to hold such sway over me, that seems to me to be the same thing as relinquishing my family ties.

: I'd also like to respectfully ask that you refrain from responding to this with anything that suggests that losing them would be ok, or that it would be their loss or anything of the sort. These are people that I love and don't want to lose or become estranged from.

: Any suggestions or views that might help?

: Thanks!

: Namaste,

: Kimberly

Thanks Jaime!

Actually, I've been more or less doing the same thing when it comes to discussions with my family or friends who are conservative Christians. I've either kept quiet, or I've made mild comments that imply that whatever judgement they are placing on the people they are talking about is not exactly the christian way of looking at things. It sometimes works, but because I've always been seen as the immature, irresponsible and non-sensical one any comments that I make that may be spiritually convicting, no matter how mild, are received as if I'm once again trying to shove a religion down their throats.

LOL. Today I'm finding the whole situation rather humorous though, because I've just spent the morning surrendering tons of old views, unrealized prejudices and misconceptions about my life to Goddess. Reading the text from the lesson on surrendering really helped a lot. Oddly, it doesn't really feel so much like it is -my- problem any more. It seems gloriously like it is Goddess's problem and She will take care of it, since I have surrendered and also submitted to the unconcious!

Anyway, thanks for responding Jaime. Makes me feel better knowing that I'm not alone in being seen as the family "freak".

Namaste,
Kimberly