I am attending a course to become a NLP trainer. The NLP (Neurolinguistic Programming) techniques are to a great extent working with our subconscious map of reality (ie. http://www.canlp.ca ). For instance there are techniques to take away phobias and allergies, techniques to reframe our beliefs, the time line therapy technique to relieve suppressed emotions at a deep level and so on. We are practicing on each other. Sometimes my subconscious mind does not want to participate. This happens especially when it comes to the time line therapy. My trainer claims my subconscious is sabotaging my progress on those occasions. I am not so sure about that. There might be some reason why I should not take away some suppressed memories right now or using that method. For instance, it might interfere with the similar process of kundalini or the tummo fire. Is there such a risk, or is it just my fears speaking through my ego?

  It may be that Goddess wants you to see perfection in the past, as it is...

 The hazard of time line work, is getting too involved in what you discover, and getting stuck in outdated emotions. It takes you out of the moment, especially the past life stuff.

 The other thing you learn, is to project stuff onto yourself, in the future... don't do it. Your life belongs to Goddess, and your future self might not agree with today's decisions.

 That is the problem with NLP and Kundalini: NLP is mostly ego based, getting the unconscious to do what you want. My will be done, not surrender. Projecting the ego of today onto your future self.  So you will find some of the training is not in alignment. Follow your gut.

 It can a useful tool. Some of what I teach is derived or validated by NLP.
 I learned Time Line work from Tad James back in 1991. I do not teach it, because I did not become a trainer, but I use it very occasionally in sessions.
 Not often, because "Goddess take it in top down fashion from point of origin, and everything connected to it" works just as well, and you don't end up feeding ego with too many stories about what you encountered on your timeline, or getting too interested and falling in...

The "swish" technique is very useful, so long as you let Goddess provide the new image, and be ok with it, if it is very abstract symbolism... or surrender it.

 Blessings!

: I am attending a course to become a NLP trainer. The NLP (Neurolinguistic Programming) techniques are to a great extent working with our subconscious map of reality (ie. http://www.canlp.ca ). For instance there are techniques to take away phobias and allergies, techniques to reframe our beliefs, the time line therapy technique to relieve suppressed emotions at a deep level and so on. We are practicing on each other. Sometimes my subconscious mind does not want to participate. This happens especially when it comes to the time line therapy. My trainer claims my subconscious is sabotaging my progress on those occasions. I am not so sure about that. There might be some reason why I should not take away some suppressed memories right now or using that method. For instance, it might interfere with the similar process of kundalini or the tummo fire. Is there such a risk, or is it just my fears speaking through my ego?

:   It can a useful tool. Some of what I teach is derived or validated by NLP.
:   I learned Time Line work from Tad James back in 1991. I do not teach it, because I did not become a trainer, but I use it very occasionally in sessions.
:  

Mystress taught me the Time Line technique once in a session and it worked really well for me. We did it in such a manner that it really changed my current perspective on the past experiences. I went from re-experiencing the traumatic emotions to being very detached and peaceful. For me, I tend to repress negative emotions, so it's tricky to balance between repression and surrender. Sometimes I use surrender as an avoidance technique because I don't want to feel rage or grief or anything I perceive as 'negative.' Sometimes surrender means crying or stating that you want to kick someone's ass! Experiencing the emotion, getting it out, and then just letting it go.

Sabrina

I have some problems understanding the relation between the NLP and the yogic theory when it comes to some NLP techniques and especially the time line techniques. When we use the time line technique form traumatic experiences or negative emotions we are supposed to go back to right before a traumatic experience, thus kind of reprogramming us to the healthier state we were in before we were harmed by that experience. As a result of this, the harm is just expected to pass away. Due to the yogic model, on the other hand, what we need to do is to extend our experience so that we can access the suppressed memories and especially release the suppressed emotions. Normally this takes for us to kind of relive and kind of work through these emotions. Due to the NLP technique it is much simpler and we don%rsquot have to relive the emotions. But is the result really the same? Or are the suppressed emotions still there, even if they don%rsquot normally get activated any more (because the anchoring is taken away) and thus don%rsquot affect the way our brain is working. And if the answer to this last question is yes, do they still form part of our karma, so that we have to face them if we walk the spiritual path? Or can we actually get rid of our karma this way, whiteout experiencing the suppressed stuff? I know by my own experience that this is to some extent possible when we use surrender or the tummo fire. But even then, it seems that some suppressed stuff just needs to come up. Is the time line technique equally effective %ndash or even more effective %ndash in this respect?

I know both from my personal experience and from what others have told me, that we are sometimes forced to confront our suppressed emotions even when the time line technique is used. Once, about two years ago, when I was in rather bad shape, I used the lime line therapy on myself. When I asked my subconscious mind to take me back to the first event that caused the feeling I wanted to get rid of, I was thrown into a situation where I was floating in dark and empty space. In front of me I watched the sun, but there was a solar eclipse going on. I felt as if I was closely related to the sun. I got my energy and light from it. But right then, just a small part at one side of the sun was to be seen, and it was just about to disappear so that the light would disappear. This triggered such overwhelming fears in me that I had to leave that situation and get back to my own time.

: I have some problems understanding the relation between the NLP and the yogic theory when it comes to some NLP techniques and especially the time line techniques. When we use the time line technique form traumatic experiences or negative emotions we are supposed to go back to right before a traumatic experience, thus kind of reprogramming us to the healthier state we were in before we were harmed by that experience. As a result of this, the harm is just expected to pass away. Due to the yogic model, on the other hand, what we need to do is to extend our experience so that we can access the suppressed memories and especially release the suppressed emotions. Normally this takes for us to kind of relive and kind of work through these emotions.

I don't know what gave you that impression. The point of surrender is to identify stuff as tension or shadows and hand it over to the infinite unconscious mind to resolve. To not have to suffer through the release. Goddess has it handled.
  No real difference between time line and "Goddess take this in top down fashion from point of origin" except the latter is more purely faith based, ego has little to do... no flying around messing with things. By your faith, are you healed. Suffering is optional.
 Suffering usually comes when you are resistant to accepting a message, or when there is a pattern for you to become conscious of, so there is a conscious change... free will.

: Due to the NLP technique it is much simpler and we don%rsquot have to relive the emotions. But is the result really the same? Or are the suppressed emotions still there, even if they don%rsquot normally get activated any more (because the anchoring is taken away) and thus don%rsquot affect the way our brain is working. And if the answer to this last question is yes, do they still form part of our karma, so that we have to face them if we walk the spiritual path? Or can we actually get rid of our karma this way, whiteout experiencing the suppressed stuff? I know by my own experience that this is to some extent possible when we use surrender or the tummo fire. But even then, it seems that some suppressed stuff just needs to come up. Is the time line technique equally effective %ndash or even more effective %ndash in this respect?

I think you have kind of answered your own question. If there is something you need to become conscious of, it will manifest for conscious release. Most karma stuff is just... lint. Just brush it off...

: I know both from my personal experience and from what others have told me, that we are sometimes forced to confront our suppressed emotions even when the time line technique is used. Once, about two years ago, when I was in rather bad shape, I used the lime line therapy on myself. When I asked my subconscious mind to take me back to the first event that caused the feeling I wanted to get rid of, I was thrown into a situation where I was floating in dark and empty space.

OK, so that is one really big difference between time line and surrender, and the reason why I am resistant to teaching it, usually only as a last resort.
 The NLP is easy to screw up, and can be very messy if you get it wrong, you can get stuck in an old bad place feeling the emotion as if it is Now, and too upset to remember what you did wrong.  
You asked to go back *into* the first event... you are supposed to stay above it, a safe distance and before it occurred. The travel above the time line is similar to the Witness state visualization... rise above yourself, as high as you need to be, for emotions to fall away so you can see clearly with the eyes of Spirit.
 I encourage people to see the events on the time line as abstract symbols... I see little pyramids and spirals. That way they are not tempted by curiosity to jump in.

In front of me I watched the sun, but there was a solar eclipse going on. I felt as if I was closely related to the sun. I got my energy and light from it. But right then, just a small part at one side of the sun was to be seen, and it was just about to disappear so that the light would disappear. This triggered such overwhelming fears in me that I had to leave that situation and get back to my own time.

Sounds ancient, primal: early people thought the sun they worshipped was swallowed, gone forever... God dying... and of course the people who watched it went blind. Primal fear, powerful symbolism.

 Well, perfection is, I guess some part of you needed to experience that, but it happened because you did the NLP wrong, not because it didn't work. Certainly a message not to go there... let the unconscious sort itself out without too much meddling.

 So, it is actually, almost the opposite of what you think. The less effort of involement the better. Faith is a muscle... exercise it, make it stronger.

 I think what is actually happening with you, is you surrender stuff in whatever way, and then you are presented with the next layer of related stuff to be surrendered... and you are mistaking that, as a requirement of suffering. Keep surrendering till you get to the silence of blissful peace... then you know it is all gone.

 Ever noticed, it is kinda creepy during an eclipse. Watched a few on TV, and didn't watch some locally... LOL! It is like everyone is holding thier breath until the new diamond ring appears and the world is saved again.

 Blessings!

Thank you! Actually, I don%rsquot think I am suffering as much as you tend to believe! I know how surrender and tummo fire works and I feel fine most of the time, especially since my tummo initiation. Here, I was just referring to the yogic theory on releasing suppressed emotions by expanding our awareness and getting access to the part of the brain that was shot off by the suppressed stuff. With %ldquonormally%rdquo I meant when we are using the traditional yogic methods and not practicing surrender or using the tummo fire. What I really wanted to know was if the time line therapy was really removing the karma and not only %ldquodisconnecting%rdquo it, so that it was still there even if you did not notice it. And you answer was clearly in the affirmative.

Actually, I don%rsquot think I did any mistake when I applied the time line technique on myself, nor did probably my NLP teacher who has had similar experiences. You are right though about messing up that technique. At NLP courses I have seen all kinds of mistakes. Personally I feel as if I don%rsquot really trust the time line method. Anyway I definitely don%rsquot want people who tend to mess everything up to use that method on me as part of their education. Part of that might of course be because of my own experience with the solar eclipse. On the other hand, when I use it myself, it uses to work just fine (except for that single occasion, when I used it on myself).

: : I have some problems understanding the relation between the NLP and the yogic theory when it comes to some NLP techniques and especially the time line techniques. When we use the time line technique form traumatic experiences or negative emotions we are supposed to go back to right before a traumatic experience, thus kind of reprogramming us to the healthier state we were in before we were harmed by that experience. As a result of this, the harm is just expected to pass away. Due to the yogic model, on the other hand, what we need to do is to extend our experience so that we can access the suppressed memories and especially release the suppressed emotions. Normally this takes for us to kind of relive and kind of work through these emotions.

: I don't know what gave you that impression. The point of surrender is to identify stuff as tension or shadows and hand it over to the infinite unconscious mind to resolve. To not have to suffer through the release. Goddess has it handled.
:    No real difference between time line and "Goddess take this in top down fashion from point of origin" except the latter is more purely faith based, ego has little to do... no flying around messing with things. By your faith, are you healed. Suffering is optional.
:   Suffering usually comes when you are resistant to accepting a message, or when there is a pattern for you to become conscious of, so there is a conscious change... free will.

: : Due to the NLP technique it is much simpler and we don%rsquot have to relive the emotions. But is the result really the same? Or are the suppressed emotions still there, even if they don%rsquot normally get activated any more (because the anchoring is taken away) and thus don%rsquot affect the way our brain is working. And if the answer to this last question is yes, do they still form part of our karma, so that we have to face them if we walk the spiritual path? Or can we actually get rid of our karma this way, whiteout experiencing the suppressed stuff? I know by my own experience that this is to some extent possible when we use surrender or the tummo fire. But even then, it seems that some suppressed stuff just needs to come up. Is the time line technique equally effective %ndash or even more effective %ndash in this respect?

: I think you have kind of answered your own question. If there is something you need to become conscious of, it will manifest for conscious release. Most karma stuff is just... lint. Just brush it off...

: : I know both from my personal experience and from what others have told me, that we are sometimes forced to confront our suppressed emotions even when the time line technique is used. Once, about two years ago, when I was in rather bad shape, I used the lime line therapy on myself. When I asked my subconscious mind to take me back to the first event that caused the feeling I wanted to get rid of, I was thrown into a situation where I was floating in dark and empty space.

: OK, so that is one really big difference between time line and surrender, and the reason why I am resistant to teaching it, usually only as a last resort.
:   The NLP is easy to screw up, and can be very messy if you get it wrong, you can get stuck in an old bad place feeling the emotion as if it is Now, and too upset to remember what you did wrong.  
:  You asked to go back *into* the first event... you are supposed to stay above it, a safe distance and before it occurred. The travel above the time line is similar to the Witness state visualization... rise above yourself, as high as you need to be, for emotions to fall away so you can see clearly with the eyes of Spirit.
:   I encourage people to see the events on the time line as abstract symbols... I see little pyramids and spirals. That way they are not tempted by curiosity to jump in.

: In front of me I watched the sun, but there was a solar eclipse going on. I felt as if I was closely related to the sun. I got my energy and light from it. But right then, just a small part at one side of the sun was to be seen, and it was just about to disappear so that the light would disappear. This triggered such overwhelming fears in me that I had to leave that situation and get back to my own time.

: Sounds ancient, primal: early people thought the sun they worshipped was swallowed, gone forever... God dying... and of course the people who watched it went blind. Primal fear, powerful symbolism.
:  
:   Well, perfection is, I guess some part of you needed to experience that, but it happened because you did the NLP wrong, not because it didn't work. Certainly a message not to go there... let the unconscious sort itself out without too much meddling.

:   So, it is actually, almost the opposite of what you think. The less effort of involement the better. Faith is a muscle... exercise it, make it stronger.
:  
:   I think what is actually happening with you, is you surrender stuff in whatever way, and then you are presented with the next layer of related stuff to be surrendered... and you are mistaking that, as a requirement of suffering. Keep surrendering till you get to the silence of blissful peace... then you know it is all gone.

:   Ever noticed, it is kinda creepy during an eclipse. Watched a few on TV, and didn't watch some locally... LOL! It is like everyone is holding thier breath until the new diamond ring appears and the world is saved again.

:   Blessings!

: Thank you! Actually, I don%rsquot think I am suffering as much as you tend to believe! I know how surrender and tummo fire works and I feel fine most of the time, especially since my tummo initiation. Here, I was just referring to the yogic theory on releasing suppressed emotions by expanding our awareness and getting access to the part of the brain that was shot off by the suppressed stuff. With %ldquonormally%rdquo I meant when we are using the traditional yogic methods and not practicing surrender or using the tummo fire. What I really wanted to know was if the time line therapy was really removing the karma and not only %ldquodisconnecting%rdquo it, so that it was still there even if you did not notice it. And you answer was clearly in the affirmative.

I affirmed that time line really does clear karma.

Vyana,

I'm new to this group. I was reading some of these comments. Last month I read an intersting web page on NLP. It descripbed an unussual form of the swish method to help in the process of enlightenment. See http://www.hypnosis-kids.com/hypnosis-inner-wisdom.htm.

Last summer I learned a technique called EFT that I used a great deal to help me balance. It's especially good for traumatic memories such as abuse or old grudges. It works on anything from headaches to improving your golf score. See http://www.emofree.com.

This spring my heart chakra opened wide. Now, if I get a disturbing memory come into my subconscious mind I light up my heart and ask God to take it away. It's gone immediately. This is the same as sending it into the light. The way I see it, before the heart opens, working through karma is difficult to impossible, Because love is the power needed to do the job. After the heart is open, removing karma is easier and quicker. I still use EFT for really hard issues.

Dr. Scott Peck, in his book, "The Road Less Traveled", gives four tools for working through life's problems and then says the power to use the tools is love. Love is the only power. He is really talking about releasing karma, he just doesn't those terms.

I hope you don't find me intrusive by rattling on about this stuff. It's been my whole life, 24-7, for the last two years.

I am VERY pleased with these kLessons. They are more powerful and simpler than anything I've run into yet. We are luck to have Mystress teaching us. Most masters refuse to tell what you really need to do to raise the kundalini unless you are a private student.

Love, Nicholas