Hello, we are still on the lesson on the Divine Beloved. I find this lesson very emotionally moving, and don't know well how to place it. The fact that for instance Mytress' Divine Beloved is Archangel Michael, or that mine would be Jesus, seems a bit puzzling. If I understand well, the Divine Beloved is the Higher Self, Goddess as Mystress would say?, who takes a form in order for us to experience the Love for the Higher Self. So it is a sort projection from the inconscious, right? But still Archangel Michael or Jesus are really existing beings, not projections...? Is the inconscious only projecting the relationship between my individuality and Jesus as the Beloved? Anyway I find this lesson has enlivened a lot the relationship between the individuality and the Personal aspect of the Divine...I cannot talk of the Divine Beloved giving me orgasms as I read in  some posts, more in terms of extasy,...Anyway it is touching my heart very much and I would love to read your experiences or some echo from Mystress as she returns from her vacations.
Much love to everyone
DeviRam

hello DeviRam,

i've been enjoying your presence in the Tea Room since you first posted (and  Jyotim too, sorry if i spelled it wrong), even though i have not responded to any of  them...  

: Hello, we are still on the lesson on the Divine Beloved. I find this lesson very  emotionally moving, and don't know well how to place it. The fact that for  instance Mytress' Divine Beloved is Archangel Michael, or that mine would be  Jesus, seems a bit puzzling. If I understand well, the Divine Beloved is the Higher  Self, Goddess as Mystress would say?, who takes a form in order for us to  experience the Love for the Higher Self. So it is a sort projection from the  inconscious, right?  

as i understand it, the Divine Beloved is distinctly different from the Higher Self  (which perhaps is your own form in its consciously divine state)... the DB is the
form that your all-knowing unconscious Body-Mind takes on to have a  relationship with you... it takes on the form that it knows will be ideal for you, to  please you as it shares its wisdom and ecstasy with you...

:But still Archangel Michael or Jesus are really existing beings, not  projections...? Is the inconscious only projecting the relationship between my  individuality and Jesus as the Beloved?  

when an individual (like historical Jesus) becomes an archetype... perhaps the   archetype is much greater than and more inclusive than the individual was (at  least from our limited 3-d perspective).  

so your DB can utilize that archetype which will please you most, by actually  taking it on... not merely just masquerading as the archetype... this can happen  because your DB has direct access to the entire Collective Un/Consciousness  which contains all the archetypes, and also all of the individual lives ever lived or  that potentially will be lived...  

:Anyway I find this lesson has enlivened a lot the relationship between the  individuality and the Personal aspect of the Divine...I cannot talk of the Divine  Beloved giving me orgasms as I read in  some posts, more in terms of extasy,...  

my Divine Beloved often directs me in solo-tantric self-pleasuring, as i call on Her  after i ground to begin my ritual... She often completely takes over and  dominates my process, making me scream and moan long and deeply as i  orgasm for a long time, orgasming without even ejaculating until sometimes at  the end... most often, after at least 30 minutes of ESO (*Extended Sexual  Orgasm, see below)... and it is like i am actually with the most incredible sexy lover that could possibly be...  

warmly,

percyval

* i recently posted the following info about ESO on the Kundalini-Sex list at Yahoo Groups:

(snip)
although i considered this quite unlikely when i heard of it about a decade ago, there really is a difference between orgasm and ejaculation in males... Mystress Angelique first pointed this out to me in this chapter of her website: http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent/spirit/gaia.htm titled, "Solo Sex Magic:.All Acts of Love and Pleasure Serve The Goddess."... here's a brief quote from Mystress's page:  

"It is possible to enter an altered, transcendent state with sexual activity, with-holding ejaculation. The best book I have found to teach how to do this is called'the E.S.O. Ecstasy Program' , by Alan P. Brauer, M.D. and Donna J. Brauer. Warner books. To Quote page 113: " 'Extended orgasmic response appears to induce a highly pleasurable state of heightened mental activity. This sexual high is similar to a deep meditative state, with electrical brain activity moving in more synchronous patterns and shifted toward alpha and theta waves, with greater electrical activity in the right side of the brain...' "  

the Braur's book that Mystress mentions is out of print, but some used copies are offered at Amazon... i was able to learn the technique by using their in print book called, "Eso: How You and Your Lover Can Give Each Other Hours of Extended Sexual Orgasm" which is available at Amazon for $11.19...  

anyway, now i have learned that extended orgasm without ejaculation is very possible for men, and quite ecstatic.. an ejaculation can then be an option, but not necessary after anywhere from 10 minutes to close to 2 hours of orgasm (in my own experience)... i tend to find 30 to 45 minutes usually optimal... it is not really very hard to learn how to do it...  

btw: the author you mentioned, Margo Anand, has written some of the best material i have seen on tantric sexuality...

Hello Percyval, beautiful name... thank you very much for the answer, it really clears a lot for me.
We will try to get the book you mentioned from Amazon

Warm greetings
DeviRam:

hello DeviRam,

: i've been enjoying your presence in the Tea Room since you first posted (and  Jyotim too, sorry if i spelled it wrong), even though i have not responded to any of  them...  

: : Hello, we are still on the lesson on the Divine Beloved. I find this lesson very  emotionally moving, and don't know well how to place it. The fact that for  instance Mytress' Divine Beloved is Archangel Michael, or that mine would be  Jesus, seems a bit puzzling. If I understand well, the Divine Beloved is the Higher  Self, Goddess as Mystress would say?, who takes a form in order for us to  experience the Love for the Higher Self. So it is a sort projection from the  inconscious, right?  

: as i understand it, the Divine Beloved is distinctly different from the Higher Self  (which perhaps is your own form in its consciously divine state)... the DB is the
: form that your all-knowing unconscious Body-Mind takes on to have a  relationship with you... it takes on the form that it knows will be ideal for you, to  please you as it shares its wisdom and ecstasy with you...

: :But still Archangel Michael or Jesus are really existing beings, not  projections...? Is the inconscious only projecting the relationship between my  individuality and Jesus as the Beloved?  

: when an individual (like historical Jesus) becomes an archetype... perhaps the   archetype is much greater than and more inclusive than the individual was (at  least from our limited 3-d perspective).  

: so your DB can utilize that archetype which will please you most, by actually  taking it on... not merely just masquerading as the archetype... this can happen  because your DB has direct access to the entire Collective Un/Consciousness  which contains all the archetypes, and also all of the individual lives ever lived or  that potentially will be lived...  

: :Anyway I find this lesson has enlivened a lot the relationship between the  individuality and the Personal aspect of the Divine...I cannot talk of the Divine  Beloved giving me orgasms as I read in  some posts, more in terms of extasy,...  

: my Divine Beloved often directs me in solo-tantric self-pleasuring, as i call on Her  after i ground to begin my ritual... She often completely takes over and  dominates my process, making me scream and moan long and deeply as i  orgasm for a long time, orgasming without even ejaculating until sometimes at  the end... most often, after at least 30 minutes of ESO (*Extended Sexual  Orgasm, see below)... and it is like i am actually with the most incredible sexy lover that could possibly be...  

: warmly,

: percyval

: * i recently posted the following info about ESO on the Kundalini-Sex list at Yahoo Groups:

: (snip)
: although i considered this quite unlikely when i heard of it about a decade ago, there really is a difference between orgasm and ejaculation in males... Mystress Angelique first pointed this out to me in this chapter of her website: http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent/spirit/gaia.htm titled, "Solo Sex Magic:.All Acts of Love and Pleasure Serve The Goddess."... here's a brief quote from Mystress's page:  

: "It is possible to enter an altered, transcendent state with sexual activity, with-holding ejaculation. The best book I have found to teach how to do this is called'the E.S.O. Ecstasy Program' , by Alan P. Brauer, M.D. and Donna J. Brauer. Warner books. To Quote page 113: " 'Extended orgasmic response appears to induce a highly pleasurable state of heightened mental activity. This sexual high is similar to a deep meditative state, with electrical brain activity moving in more synchronous patterns and shifted toward alpha and theta waves, with greater electrical activity in the right side of the brain...' "  

: the Braur's book that Mystress mentions is out of print, but some used copies are offered at Amazon... i was able to learn the technique by using their in print book called, "Eso: How You and Your Lover Can Give Each Other Hours of Extended Sexual Orgasm" which is available at Amazon for $11.19...  

: anyway, now i have learned that extended orgasm without ejaculation is very possible for men, and quite ecstatic.. an ejaculation can then be an option, but not necessary after anywhere from 10 minutes to close to 2 hours of orgasm (in my own experience)... i tend to find 30 to 45 minutes usually optimal... it is not really very hard to learn how to do it...  

: btw: the author you mentioned, Margo Anand, has written some of the best material i have seen on tantric sexuality...

Hello!

  Percyval answered your question very well, I am not sure if I have much to add! Thank you, jP!

 The DB is the body mind, which is the opposite gender of the body. The body mind does not experience separation in the way the consciousness does, and it embraces the whole of the collective and the archetypes. So, it can choose any form, but generally will chose a form that you can love, and that is the opposite gender to your body. The body mind is All, it simply selects an aspect to have a relationship with you. If your DB shows up as Jesus, it is Jesus.

 Mind you, there are several versions of  Jesus... There is the actual guy, and there is the church archetype... the actual guy is much more "human"... he has a sense of humor. The archetype is more dazzling and aloof.

 The higher self, is the ego individuality but on a higher spiritual level. Individual, but it does not experience separation from Goddess as the ego does. At least, most do not. I have encountered some higher selves of people that are in need of healing...

The Christian idea of sin harming the soul is incorrect, the soul spark cannot be harmed, by anything we do on this earth... tho the body may become so... um... polluted,  that the soul cannot remain in it, ... but the higher self can be diminished.

The higher self usually resembles the physical person, but sometimes rather idealized... for example, if your body was crippled, your higher self would still appear whole.

 Goddess is All. The Self, and the Void. Formless. Truly genderless, but calling the infinite nameless by a feminine term creates a shift of consciousness within Us, which is beneficial. Especially for those whose birth religion focused on a distant, judgmental Father-God.  

: Hello, we are still on the lesson on the Divine Beloved. I find this lesson very emotionally moving, and don't know well how to place it. The fact that for instance Mytress' Divine Beloved is Archangel Michael,

Yes. Since this course was written, my DB has gotten restless with my attachment to that form, and prefers to simply be called "Beloved." I am finding it a hard habit to break, to not call him Michael, but he is very patient with me.

In any case, when you are fully unified, there is no separation between you and the DB. I find when my energy is very clear, my mind is silent, there is no conversation in my head. I am that.

 I take on a bit of karma, and the Beloved appears. I take on a lot, and my energy gets low, the Shadow shows up too. That is because of my Shamanic stuff, most people's shadow does not take a teacher-form. You find it by noticing what you think you are not, observing your judgments about other people and realizing they are yourself reflected.

 Blessings!  

: or that mine would be Jesus, seems a bit puzzling. If I understand well, the Divine Beloved is the Higher Self, Goddess as Mystress would say?, who takes a form in order for us to experience the Love for the Higher Self. So it is a sort projection from the inconscious, right? But still Archangel Michael or Jesus are really existing beings, not projections...?
:Is the inconscious only projecting the relationship between my individuality and Jesus as the Beloved? Anyway I find this lesson has enlivened a lot the relationship between the individuality and the Personal aspect of the Divine...I cannot talk of the Divine Beloved giving me orgasms as I read in some posts, more in terms of extasy,...Anyway it is touching my heart very much and I would love to read your experiences or some echo from Mystress as she returns from her vacations.
: Much love to everyone
: DeviRam