Mirror Game / DB Shadow

[Vyana]

Thank you! I certainly never confused the bullying with something divine, although when seeking for a rational explanation I have sometimes wondered if there could be another explanation than that it was the rightful punishment for something I did in a former life. Nor did I ever perceive the bullying as some important pattern of my life. (On the contrary I did a lot to get away from old patterns and became a very successful scientist, but only to end up kind of stuck in what might be the worse bullying-workplace in the world.) On the other hand, it is true that the thought forms that made me unable to really try to tell on the bullies effectively were really strong in my mind.

There was not only the more or less hidden impact of my mother%rsquos ways of explaining things so that I felt responsible, holding me responsible, telling others how naughty I was and so on. There was also an unwritten law for kids, that %ldquoyou never tell on other kids%rdquo, and for some reason it was very important for me to obey to such rules. Of course, I sometimes tried to tell my mother or father about what was going on all the time, but their reactions were so strong and negative that I did not dare to go on. I suppose they somehow must have known or suspected it (e.g. I had bruises all over my body), but they were not able to deal with it. So they just immediately quieted me very effectively with blame when I tried to tell them about it. The only thing that I can think of that might have worked would probably have been if I had told my grandfather, who was formerly an important person in our village. He was 81 years old when this started, but he might still have been able to do something. But I never dared to tell him. So, even if I did not consciously misinterpret these thought patterns for divine, they certainly had an almost divine impact on my life situation.

I don%rsquot know for sure about magic, as I don%rsquot think it was needed. The pattern of severe outrages against other kids on that school-yard was not created by me. There were others before me. I knew one, who died rather young and another one who is still bullied at his present workplace. And there were others after me. One was a girl who, I have been told, is still living with her mother in the same village and has never dared to live the house of her mother for many years. Another was a boy, who I believe might have proceeded to higher education like I did. Similarly, at my present workplace a lot of people have been suffering severely from bullying. On the other hand, if there is magic, I really need to undo it to change my present situation.

So, please Goddess, take all responsibility and guilt magic and manipulated responsibility and guilt in my life. Take it in top down fashion from point of origin and please take the holes too. They are all yours!  Thank you very much!

[juergen]

After all, as far as i can see, you were actively participating in this and helping make that school-hell grow, probably encourage the torturers to seek other victims and enlarge the game.
By your absolute pliability, You made them an offer they simply couldn't reject.
On another level you are All, and certainly a great magician, and however that may work unconsciously, it works in alignment with ego: body language, subliminal signs, behavior hard to verbalize.
You say there was a moral code not to tell on other kids, but that's another shoe: as i understand the events, it was the "bullies" who +told on you+ and made you responsible for things caused by themselves! So you would not be bound to any code whatsoever, furthermore you broke a more binding code by lying(=confirming their false accusations). So it is not astonishing you got into conscious-trouble(the inner conscience from All, not from pseudo-gods like teachers, bullies, parents), and felt/feel guilty.
By following these thought patterns you made all that crappy people be Goddess for you, although you certainly didn't consider them as Goddess
This is in no ways meant as an excuse for the other participators. I also did a lot like you describe but from time to time gave other signals: of my determination to escalate a possible slaughter on verbally ALL levels: a prescription how David can frighten Goliath.
Later when i learned of atomic power i became scared of that, because it seemed logic that following a path of firm resolution would lead to destroying the branch we are all sitting on. However since then i never felt really happy, and i seem to pursue much of the mindset you are presenting here; moreover have been exposed to a lot of nagging doubts of rotating vicious circles, of which you seem so far be spared of.
Signaling merciless placidness is no path i can recommend, thus.
There is a similar pattern in battered women and wifes: Some Ones seem to really attract it, while there are not few males who think their physical force is an acceptable "peacemaker". But a general impression is conveyed, that there are statistical frequencies in certain women to become victims of violence, while some women get never in trouble throughout their life.
I had a time as a kid and later, when i attracted trouble with dogs. I was already angered and pissed that dogs are allowed at all. This was reinforced by newspaper articles of victims often severely torn or even killed. Still my judgement is not in favor of keeping dogs, but since i have stopped to feel threatened, i'm much more relaxed about direct encounterings.
Just by changing perspective and view myself as All, along with the conscience and responsibility, this has an effect.
But the ego has also some kind of conscience and responsibility(like you had as a victim of school-bulllies) , but it feels different.
Sometimes i'm conscious of creating hell and what a fun it is, and being conscious i'm  also having control over it, experience and examine it.(Maybe even to compare it with the silverlinings of heaven i believe to witness occasionally).
Ego-conscience goes with fun and cynism, the price is hell: absence of love and being lonesome. To be friends with every guy in the village and attend each funeral and have the whole village on one's own burial; and the bells ringing especially for the deceased. But still sooo lonesome...
So i become aware of the one or other intrigue i concocted or tried to concoct in the past, also as a kid. Not that i was very good at it, but the awareness grows.
In a village, people have their peculiarities: fear of discord is very distinct, naturally, but from the concept of a village, especially in a modern country these structures are not all that sane, still in the experimental stage, like everywhere else.
As soon as we have enough of the fun of hell, i think we have means to signal this, if we really make a choice for 'out of hell': into heaven. When we accept that ALL IS we have to accept that Magick of ALL IS, and we get equipped with heaven's powers, seems atleast natural to me, just other(and stronger) magick than magick of hell. This power has its own signals, we know as charisma, charismatic persons are not likely to be bullied. They need not make hints that their country has an arsenal of all heard and unheard weapon-systems which will be mobilized inevitably, if someone dare to put their hand on them.
What we falsely often do -if i may here generalize from my own foibles- is to try to do heaven work on the hell engine...
...Failing to follow the doctrine of the famous leap of faith, which would imply to just exchange our basic ego thoughts by thoughts presented and proposed here in this course and give them a fair chance. How this evolves may also be a function of how much the shoe of hell is already hurting.
Now i have great faith in this power from the position of Eden or from 'ALL IS', that all these conflicts of hell may be influenced in a healthy and healing way in accordance with magical ethics "For the Good of all and harm to none", very similar to the healing work of "that Hawaian Guy".

Quite often people express their hopes in the young generation, to pull the chestnuts out of the fire. But did we? Probably the Kundalini work is a more promising attempt of a rejuvenation, and then it may have some boost for the youth as well.
So we may be not all that wrong here,

again smiles..

: Thank you! I certainly never confused the bullying with something divine, although when seeking for a rational explanation I have sometimes wondered if there could be another explanation than that it was the rightful punishment for something I did in a former life. Nor did I ever perceive the bullying as some important pattern of my life. (On the contrary I did a lot to get away from old patterns and became a very successful scientist, but only to end up kind of stuck in what might be the worse bullying-workplace in the world.) On the other hand, it is true that the thought forms that made me unable to really try to tell on the bullies effectively were really strong in my mind.

: There was not only the more or less hidden impact of my mother%rsquos ways of explaining things so that I felt responsible, holding me responsible, telling others how naughty I was and so on. There was also an unwritten law for kids, that %ldquoyou never tell on other kids%rdquo, and for some reason it was very important for me to obey to such rules. Of course, I sometimes tried to tell my mother or father about what was going on all the time, but their reactions were so strong and negative that I did not dare to go on. I suppose they somehow must have known or suspected it (e.g. I had bruises all over my body), but they were not able to deal with it. So they just immediately quieted me very effectively with blame when I tried to tell them about it. The only thing that I can think of that might have worked would probably have been if I had told my grandfather, who was formerly an important person in our village. He was 81 years old when this started, but he might still have been able to do something. But I never dared to tell him. So, even if I did not consciously misinterpret these thought patterns for divine, they certainly had an almost divine impact on my life situation.

: I don%rsquot know for sure about magic, as I don%rsquot think it was needed. The pattern of severe outrages against other kids on that school-yard was not created by me. There were others before me. I knew one, who died rather young and another one who is still bullied at his present workplace. And there were others after me. One was a girl who, I have been told, is still living with her mother in the same village and has never dared to live the house of her mother for many years. Another was a boy, who I believe might have proceeded to higher education like I did. Similarly, at my present workplace a lot of people have been suffering severely from bullying. On the other hand, if there is magic, I really need to undo it to change my present situation.

: So, please Goddess, take all responsibility and guilt magic and manipulated responsibility and guilt in my life. Take it in top down fashion from point of origin and please take the holes too. They are all yours!  Thank you very much!

[Vyana]

Thank you! This discussion is very helpful to help me sort out these bullying matters.

Actually, there were not more victims, but rather less, after me than before. And when I was 12 most of the school yard bullying stopped as a new main teacher started to patrol the schoolyard during the breaks. So, if I was actively participating in the bullying and helped make that school-hell grow, it was only directed at me, I believe. The bullies never told on me, as far as I can remember. They just accused me of being responsible for things as part of the harassment. If I would really have done some mischief, I think they would never have told on me either. The boys never told on each other, but the girls sometimes did.

Actually, the bullying was mostly plain physical and only superficially psychological. I was not excluded from anything. We were somehow still %ldquofriends%rdquo. In fact, as there was a constant lack of numbers for different sports and games, the other kids most often wanted me to participate. And amongst my playmates on my free time I was often de facto the leader, because I had a lot of ideas on what to do and how to do it. My attitude towards the bullies was not condemning. I got angry and disliked their behavior but I never portrayed them as devils or something alike in my mind. I got better when it comes to finding faults with others when I was in my 20ies. Today, I perceive my bullies as rather unhappy people who try to compensate for their own lack of success by picking on people who are more successful (but not strong enough, when it comes to powerful friends, to be unreachable).

I don%rsquot know what to say about charisma. I have sometimes been told I am a charismatic person, but still I am bullied. Of course, what I have been told might not be true. (When it comes to dogs, I have always loved them and they most often love me back. I was brought up with a dog and was never afraid of a dog as a child. I just walked right up to the biggest and must scary dogs and gave them a hug. And they liked it. I have often surprised people with how well I get along with dogs who normally do not allow anyone to come close.)

The heart chakra is said to be the key to influence reality. It is when the heart is opening that we get the power to create our reality. Therefore, we are recommended to be careful for what we wish for, because it comes true. Of course this takes some time of training and practice, so it is not surprising if we happen to do some %ldquoheaven work on the hell engine%rdquo and create a hell somewhere on the way. Obviously, it%rsquos quite a challenge only to hold %ldquogood%rdquo beliefs, as most beliefs are unconscious and most of the beliefs that appear as good at first sight are accompanied with a lot of presuppositions which are not equally good. Actually, it is by the sole distinction of good from evil that evil is crated!

[juergen]

Now, this appears to be much of a Jesus Thing!

Holding the other cheek.
Because they don't know what they do...
Solidarity with the suffering.
Scape-goat, God's lamb.

Those lads were probably abused kids, who were made responsible for their parents unhappiness, and they passed this on to you, thus the responsible-theme.

Maybe they sensed an "injustice", because you were not being abused like they were, at home, or you got better scores at school, and their transgressions against you were a sort of "getting even"; equality has a higher ranking among school-boys, also in the military within combat units i think. After what you say they were not malicious in the true sense, they really seemed to believe that you were guilty and responsible, as a part of the scape-goat ritual, and you seemed to believe it too.
'No doubt' is certainly an ingredient of successful magick; no doubt owns to the heart chakra, it owns to children, it owns to Christ; Christ is also the Child, the miracle doer, the Guru of doubtless belief, doubtless love.
It is reported that kids loose their spiritual gift when growing older, (as doubts come with age).
And the curse of these often repeated rituals seems still to weigh heavily on you, is this a wonder?
"Innocent magick"; so many complications go back to childhood; i remember once by an elder neighbour boy i was told a name or a quality; i didn't know that word, i didn't even remember, what he said, only that it was meant to mean s.th. evil, that i was totally damned; i can still feel that impression, that's what christian people do to each other, on the country side.

It is also quite commonplace that mild people have a tendency to feel guilty for their gifts.

Well, on some locations, Jesus shows another face as well...

smiling once more

[juergen]

Now, this appears to be much of a Jesus Thing!

Holding the other cheek.
Because they don't know what they do...
Solidarity with the suffering.
Scape-goat, God's lamb.

Those lads were probably abused kids, who were made responsible for their parents unhappiness, and they passed this on to you, thus the responsible-theme.

Maybe they sensed an "injustice", because you were not being abused like they were, at home, or you got better scores at school, and their transgressions against you were a sort of "getting even"; equality has a higher ranking among school-boys, also in the military within combat units i think. After what you say they were not malicious in the true sense, they really seemed to believe that you were guilty and responsible, as a part of the scape-goat ritual, and you seemed to believe it too.
'No doubt' is certainly an ingredient of successful magick; no doubt owns to the heart chakra, it owns to children, it owns to Christ; Christ is also the Child, the miracle doer, the Guru of doubtless belief, doubtless love.
It is reported that kids loose their spiritual gift when growing older, (as doubts come with age).
And the curse of these often repeated rituals seems still to weigh heavily on you, is this a wonder?
"Innocent magick"; so many complications go back to childhood; i remember once by an elder neighbour boy i was told a name or a quality; i didn't know that word, i didn't even remember, what he said, only that it was meant to mean s.th. evil, that i was totally damned; i can still feel that impression, that's what christian people do to each other, on the country side.

It is also quite commonplace that mild people have a tendency to feel guilty for their gifts.

Well, on some locations, Jesus shows another face as well...

smiling once more( what can i do ? )

: Thank you! This discussion is very helpful to help me sort out these bullying matters.

: Actually, there were not more victims, but rather less, after me than before. And when I was 12 most of the school yard bullying stopped as a new main teacher started to patrol the schoolyard during the breaks. So, if I was actively participating in the bullying and helped make that school-hell grow, it was only directed at me, I believe. The bullies never told on me, as far as I can remember. They just accused me of being responsible for things as part of the harassment. If I would really have done some mischief, I think they would never have told on me either. The boys never told on each other, but the girls sometimes did.

: Actually, the bullying was mostly plain physical and only superficially psychological. I was not excluded from anything. We were somehow still %ldquofriends%rdquo. In fact, as there was a constant lack of numbers for different sports and games, the other kids most often wanted me to participate. And amongst my playmates on my free time I was often de facto the leader, because I had a lot of ideas on what to do and how to do it. My attitude towards the bullies was not condemning. I got angry and disliked their behavior but I never portrayed them as devils or something alike in my mind. I got better when it comes to finding faults with others when I was in my 20ies. Today, I perceive my bullies as rather unhappy people who try to compensate for their own lack of success by picking on people who are more successful (but not strong enough, when it comes to powerful friends, to be unreachable).

: I don%rsquot know what to say about charisma. I have sometimes been told I am a charismatic person, but still I am bullied. Of course, what I have been told might not be true. (When it comes to dogs, I have always loved them and they most often love me back. I was brought up with a dog and was never afraid of a dog as a child. I just walked right up to the biggest and must scary dogs and gave them a hug. And they liked it. I have often surprised people with how well I get along with dogs who normally do not allow anyone to come close.)

: The heart chakra is said to be the key to influence reality. It is when the heart is opening that we get the power to create our reality. Therefore, we are recommended to be careful for what we wish for, because it comes true. Of course this takes some time of training and practice, so it is not surprising if we happen to do some %ldquoheaven work on the hell engine%rdquo and create a hell somewhere on the way. Obviously, it%rsquos quite a challenge only to hold %ldquogood%rdquo beliefs, as most beliefs are unconscious and most of the beliefs that appear as good at first sight are accompanied with a lot of presuppositions which are not equally good. Actually, it is by the sole distinction of good from evil that evil is crated!

[juergen]

my latest answer makes funny jumps in the structure, it landed somewhere below, but still within this thread!
A poltergeist?
lets see where this one ends...

: %rdquoAnd obvious is not the presenter, so near is that collecting box before the nose, that you can't see the soldier; certain pangs of conscience are the closest hint i can get, hinting at the Shadow Self.%rdquo

: If this is the Shadow Self, I am indeed very acquainted to it since I was a young boy. I was a very quiet boy and was seldom up to any mischief. Still I was often overwhelmed by strong feelings of guilt, such as when I tried to make love to a neighbor%rsquos girl. In that case I suppose I had some reason to feel guilty. But in most cases, it was only about very insignificant things (as that was almost all I did). They were probably sometimes only symbolic, a lesson to learn, such as when I took some totally unimportant waste from one persons land and moved it to another person%rsquos property. I was awake that night worrying about it for hours and wanted to go back in the middle of the night to put it back. The lesson was that I had no right to remove things from others property or to decide for others what was important and what was only waste. I have had these outbursts of guilt all my life, but as I grew older they got less frequent and less overwhelming. I suppose I learned to analyze the situation and decide for myself what the lesson was and whether I was rightfully to blame or not. These attacks have also been connected to what I have later recognized as my kundalini experience. In periods where I had a lot of glimpses of higher states of consciousness, they got stronger and more frequent. As a boy I thought I just had a week nervous system. Still, that does not seem to have been the case.

[Vyana]

Now, lets se where this post lands! I try to put it where you tried to put the post cited below.

I have been trying to understand what those school yard bullies thought they did when torturing me. I don%rsquot think they fully understood what they did. Probably they thought it was some kind of funny game (role play), which was basically consensual, although they sometimes (read: always) freaked out and (as they might have said) %ldquotook it a little bit too far%rdquo.

But what did they think when they where at their worse? On many occasions, such as when the boy tackled me into the basin and accused me of having destroyed it, and of being a %ldquodestroyer%rdquo, I am rather sure they acted out some kind of script, most likely from situations where they had been abused or had other traumatic experiences. I suppose you are right when suggesting that many of these kids were abused, and they kind of %ldquopassed it on%rdquo to me.

On other occasions they were probably more aware of what they did. It was some kind of experiment. Testing the limits, copying events from pulp magazines or films, boosting and showing younger boys what could be done etc. E.g., I remember once there were two or three two or three years older boys holding my arms behind my back and holding me still while a smaller kid, who was one year younger than me, was punching my face with his fist over and over again, each time collecting his swings from far behind his back. (Maybe this younger boy was ashamed of what he did, because later (when I was 11 or 12) we made really good friends for several years, which made a major change in my life. In the weekends and holidays I often visited him in his village (and even lived there for periods), where the kids and adults of all ages kept together and were much nicer to each others than in my village. While playing with this kids I suddenly found out I was often the leader, as my friend was very popular and I was stronger and better on many sports than him and the other kids. This did a lot to my self confidence.)

The abuse often started as what at least looked like an innocent kids%rsquo game. Then it went out of hand. But sometimes I managed to stop it from going out of hand. This was when I was able to make the bullies laugh instead of getting furious, or whatever they did. This was rather late, when I was old enough to have some self esteem.

When it comes to me, I was mostly only confused. I was overwhelmed with unendurable pain and did not know what to think or what to do. Even if I was physically punished three times by my parents, the atmosphere in my home was, much thank to my mother, very nice and generous (although strong negative feelings or complaints were not allowed) and very different from what some of the other kids were used to. So, when I started school I had the natural self confidence of a kid who has never been confronted with evil. And this is known to make abused kids furious. I did not even try to fight back effectively, when it was not just for fun, as fighting and wishing to hurt others was simply not part of my world. In many ways I was the most innocent victim you could imagine. I was too different from them to adjust to the new environment and start to abuse other kids myself. And I had no strategies to defend myself. I never learned to fight or fought back seriously even when I was later attacked by smaller kids. It just wasn%rsquot me. I noticed that other kids started crying when they were abused by bullies, so I did too, but it helped only for a while. Sometimes, when the physical abuse was very severe, I thought that if I just let it go on they would seriously hurt me so that the abuse became so obvious that someone would have to do something about it, but that never happened. Still I did not perceive myself as innocent or was consciously holding the other cheek. I did not understand that they were abused. If I had any thoughts about that, I probably just thought they lost their minds and didn%rsquot know what they did. That was because when they did not abuse me, most of them could be really nice. Still I was chocked and disgusted by their behavior.

On basis of these observations, I suppose I should also ask how my reaction to the bullies%rsquo first attacks might have influenced them. Most likely, I would have avoided much of the bullying had I reacted differently. It might have helped if I had managed to just laugh at them, at least if I had managed to make them laugh too. And maybe it would also have worked if I had turned mad, fist fighting, kicking and screaming at them. If I had managed to hurt any of them this might have made them think twice before they attacked me again. But I also wonder what they thought about me and my reaction to their harassment. The other boy who was bullied, who was probably three years younger than me, was perceived as somewhat proud because he did not speak the local dialect and spoke in a way that somehow indicated that he considered himself very important. I did not act like that, but my speech might still have been somewhat different from the other boys%rsquo, as my mother did not speak the local dialect. It is also possible, that when I reacted with disgust to their behavior they might have perceived me as proud in some way, or at least different, as they were probably used to harassment from their homes and that the reaction they saw in my eyes reminded them of their own torments.

Yes, %ldquothe curse of these often repeated rituals%rdquo still seems to weigh heavily on me, especially as I am still bullied. But %ldquostill%rdquo is not the right word here. I wasn%rsquot bullied for about 20 years; then it started at my workplace. Now it is obvious to me that much of this stuff is related to the heart chakra and I suppose it might have been from the beginning. The reason why I am bullied to day is obvious. I am very good at my job, while most of the bullies are not and I suspect they fear being exposed for incompetence. So they have to use other means to keep me back at their level of success %ndash or at least try to. As the present managers are also more or less involved they encourage the bullies to make accusations and tell them lies about me. This is a difficult situation. It does not help me if I manage to feel better %ndash I am still in their hands.

In Reply to: Re: Mirror Game / DB Shadow posted by Vyana on May 22, 2007 at 04:10:50:
Now, this appears to be much of a Jesus Thing!
Holding the other cheek.
Because they don't know what they do...
Solidarity with the suffering.
Scape-goat, God's lamb.
Those lads were probably abused kids, who were made responsible for their parents unhappiness, and they passed this on to you, thus the responsible-theme.
Maybe they sensed an "injustice", because you were not being abused like they were, at home, or you got better scores at school, and their transgressions against you were a sort of "getting even"; equality has a higher ranking among school-boys, also in the military within combat units i think. After what you say they were not malicious in the true sense, they really seemed to believe that you were guilty and responsible, as a part of the scape-goat ritual, and you seemed to believe it too.
'No doubt' is certainly an ingredient of successful magick; no doubt owns to the heart chakra, it owns to children, it owns to Christ; Christ is also the Child, the miracle doer, the Guru of doubtless belief, doubtless love.
It is reported that kids loose their spiritual gift when growing older, (as doubts come with age).
And the curse of these often repeated rituals seems still to weigh heavily on you, is this a wonder?
"Innocent magick"; so many complications go back to childhood; i remember once by an elder neighbour boy i was told a name or a quality; i didn't know that word, i didn't even remember, what he said, only that it was meant to mean s.th. evil, that i was totally damned; i can still feel that impression, that's what christian people do to each other, on the country side.
It is also quite commonplace that mild people have a tendency to feel guilty for their gifts.
Well, on some locations, Jesus shows another face as well...
smiling once more( what can i do ? )

[juergen]

all right your post seemed landed where yo expected, good trick!

The classic solution would probably be to become a bully, too.
Which You resisted, but have been lacking another answer as well.
So much could be said, about the psychology of stupid villagers, but to what avail.
If i scan the Divine Beloved Higher Self Tandem, i arrive at: Love and Strength(ideally).
Love could be talk; but first Love has to be Love; i have often or at least sometimes had the feeling that my love is just not strong enough, be maybe higher than other people's love, but not high enough, like with escape velocity(of rockets to leave earth gravity): below Ve. I have seen or heard of examples of people not too far away from me who had that gift; not in standard situations, but in special situations where they have never been before.
Just talking difficult cases into playing along, educating them, assimilating them(5th).
To signal other people you'd never go to the weapons is problematic; even if you would be ready to take out the axe, but signal you wouldn't, is not useful; "Saint" is a common swearword.
To signal them a possible advantage for a consensual behavior and get them a glance of the bad cop too, might be an alley to more agreeability; you already manage this with dogs, probably you don't expect them on one level with you, but you find a common denominator and it works fine. Ought to be possible with various persons too. But mad people are more complex and we need a fuller strength and range of the Higher Self to manifest in the body, so that language/body language can be expressed credibly; so many examples by actors!( have you seen Mystress' Europe Gallery? She got this too, really!); so on my agenda i have:
Grounding(seeking for relaxation/trance-breathing, tranced by Divine Beloved just before drawing the light down)
Divine Beloved
(Her) Shadow
In the wake of this: getting thru the veil to Higher Self.

give Yourself and the bullies the chance to know your true character, at least for my own part i'll try my best! Better Divine Beloved have Her way with me completely, than any crappy people; unconditional love is first of all for *All that Is*, which is Love again; so i have trust She won't lead me anywhere that grows hate and fear or any bullyship.

: Now, lets se where this post lands! I try to put it where you tried to put the post cited below.

: I have been trying to understand what those school yard bullies thought they did when torturing me. I don%rsquot think they fully understood what they did. Probably they thought it was some kind of funny game (role play), which was basically consensual, although they sometimes (read: always) freaked out and (as they might have said) %ldquotook it a little bit too far%rdquo.

: But what did they think when they where at their worse? On many occasions, such as when the boy tackled me into the basin and accused me of having destroyed it, and of being a %ldquodestroyer%rdquo, I am rather sure they acted out some kind of script, most likely from situations where they had been abused or had other traumatic experiences. I suppose you are right when suggesting that many of these kids were abused, and they kind of %ldquopassed it on%rdquo to me.

: On other occasions they were probably more aware of what they did. It was some kind of experiment. Testing the limits, copying events from pulp magazines or films, boosting and showing younger boys what could be done etc. E.g., I remember once there were two or three two or three years older boys holding my arms behind my back and holding me still while a smaller kid, who was one year younger than me, was punching my face with his fist over and over again, each time collecting his swings from far behind his back. (Maybe this younger boy was ashamed of what he did, because later (when I was 11 or 12) we made really good friends for several years, which made a major change in my life. In the weekends and holidays I often visited him in his village (and even lived there for periods), where the kids and adults of all ages kept together and were much nicer to each others than in my village. While playing with this kids I suddenly found out I was often the leader, as my friend was very popular and I was stronger and better on many sports than him and the other kids. This did a lot to my self confidence.)

: The abuse often started as what at least looked like an innocent kids%rsquo game. Then it went out of hand. But sometimes I managed to stop it from going out of hand. This was when I was able to make the bullies laugh instead of getting furious, or whatever they did. This was rather late, when I was old enough to have some self esteem.

: When it comes to me, I was mostly only confused. I was overwhelmed with unendurable pain and did not know what to think or what to do. Even if I was physically punished three times by my parents, the atmosphere in my home was, much thank to my mother, very nice and generous (although strong negative feelings or complaints were not allowed) and very different from what some of the other kids were used to. So, when I started school I had the natural self confidence of a kid who has never been confronted with evil. And this is known to make abused kids furious. I did not even try to fight back effectively, when it was not just for fun, as fighting and wishing to hurt others was simply not part of my world. In many ways I was the most innocent victim you could imagine. I was too different from them to adjust to the new environment and start to abuse other kids myself. And I had no strategies to defend myself. I never learned to fight or fought back seriously even when I was later attacked by smaller kids. It just wasn%rsquot me. I noticed that other kids started crying when they were abused by bullies, so I did too, but it helped only for a while. Sometimes, when the physical abuse was very severe, I thought that if I just let it go on they would seriously hurt me so that the abuse became so obvious that someone would have to do something about it, but that never happened. Still I did not perceive myself as innocent or was consciously holding the other cheek. I did not understand that they were abused. If I had any thoughts about that, I probably just thought they lost their minds and didn%rsquot know what they did. That was because when they did not abuse me, most of them could be really nice. Still I was chocked and disgusted by their behavior.

: On basis of these observations, I suppose I should also ask how my reaction to the bullies%rsquo first attacks might have influenced them. Most likely, I would have avoided much of the bullying had I reacted differently. It might have helped if I had managed to just laugh at them, at least if I had managed to make them laugh too. And maybe it would also have worked if I had turned mad, fist fighting, kicking and screaming at them. If I had managed to hurt any of them this might have made them think twice before they attacked me again. But I also wonder what they thought about me and my reaction to their harassment. The other boy who was bullied, who was probably three years younger than me, was perceived as somewhat proud because he did not speak the local dialect and spoke in a way that somehow indicated that he considered himself very important. I did not act like that, but my speech might still have been somewhat different from the other boys%rsquo, as my mother did not speak the local dialect. It is also possible, that when I reacted with disgust to their behavior they might have perceived me as proud in some way, or at least different, as they were probably used to harassment from their homes and that the reaction they saw in my eyes reminded them of their own torments.

: Yes, %ldquothe curse of these often repeated rituals%rdquo still seems to weigh heavily on me, especially as I am still bullied. But %ldquostill%rdquo is not the right word here. I wasn%rsquot bullied for about 20 years; then it started at my workplace. Now it is obvious to me that much of this stuff is related to the heart chakra and I suppose it might have been from the beginning. The reason why I am bullied to day is obvious. I am very good at my job, while most of the bullies are not and I suspect they fear being exposed for incompetence. So they have to use other means to keep me back at their level of success %ndash or at least try to. As the present managers are also more or less involved they encourage the bullies to make accusations and tell them lies about me. This is a difficult situation. It does not help me if I manage to feel better %ndash I am still in their hands.

[Mystress]

: all right your post seemed landed where yo expected, good trick!

: The classic solution would probably be to become a bully, too.
: Which You resisted, but have been lacking another answer as well.
: So much could be said, about the psychology of stupid villagers, but to what avail.

What you guys don't get, is that your superior attitude toward bullies, is itself a type of bullying. On an energetic, telepathic level, what you are putting out... judging people and standing on their heads to feel better about yourself...?

  Even pacifist Gandhi said "It is better to be violent, if there is violence in your heart, than to put on a cloak of non violence to cover impotence." These judgments and projections you send out, they are violence. Your thoughts have power. The worst violence of course, is to yourself, your own spirit... giving power away to other people to be God for you.

 Shadow, eh? What you think you are not. Us and them. We the special clever ones and the... what? Mundane masses of sheeple? An intellectual bully, is still a bully. We all choose the weapons that we have honed the sharpest.

: If i scan the Divine Beloved Higher Self Tandem, i arrive at: Love and Strength(ideally).

Personal integrity. The Buddha walks through the battlefield, unscathed. Arrows don't find him.  The key, is Grace... and like the song goes, humility is a huge part of that. Self created pedestals of ego superiority just don't fly.  Jesus washed feet.

 Chivalry is beautiful because there is truth in it. Follow your dharma, be true to what you know is right. Choose love over fear. Put yourself in service to what is greater than yourself; follow your soul, your discernment.  

  I have come to understand that FST level 2 is going to be a lot about personal integrity: stuff that to me seems common sense, but perhaps informed by a childhood spent reading Kipling and King Arthur.

 People don't understand the value of personal integrity, really being treu to yourself- to Goddess within you. As surrender to the K fire opens the taps and the energy behind your attention goes from a puddle to a fire hose, following your dharma becomes a matter of self preservation. The karmic feedback of aiming it at self pity or ego indulgence, just kicks too hard.

 The only control you have over the firehose, is where you choose to aim it, what you feed with the energy of your attention.

 You have no control over how other people choose to think of you. Fear, makes the attempt to control and the battle is joined: the power chakra games of the astral are all manifest as obsession... and the more you feed it, the bigger it gets until, hello psychosis!

 The path of clearing the power chakra, is victim stuff coming up to be surrendered, transcended... you rise above it, not to an ego pedestal, but to the heart. Not to control, but to love and accept your own reflection.

 Like with the faces that come up in the mirror game: you don't have to understand them or know where they came from or what they are. Just, love and acceptance, to integrate. You are All. There is no us and them.

 Blessings...

: Love could be talk; but first Love has to be Love; i have often or at least sometimes had the feeling that my love is just not strong enough, be maybe higher than other people's love, but not high enough, like with escape velocity(of rockets to leave earth gravity): below Ve. I have seen or heard of examples of people not too far away from me who had that gift; not in standard situations, but in special situations where they have never been before.
: Just talking difficult cases into playing along, educating them, assimilating them(5th).
: To signal other people you'd never go to the weapons is problematic; even if you would be ready to take out the axe, but signal you wouldn't, is not useful; "Saint" is a common swearword.
: To signal them a possible advantage for a consensual behavior and get them a glance of the bad cop too, might be an alley to more agreeability; you already manage this with dogs, probably you don't expect them on one level with you, but you find a common denominator and it works fine. Ought to be possible with various persons too. But mad people are more complex and we need a fuller strength and range of the Higher Self to manifest in the body, so that language/body language can be expressed credibly; so many examples by actors!( have you seen Mystress' Europe Gallery? She got this too, really!); so on my agenda i have:
: Grounding(seeking for relaxation/trance-breathing, tranced by Divine Beloved just before drawing the light down)
: Divine Beloved
: (Her) Shadow
: In the wake of this: getting thru the veil to Higher Self.

: give Yourself and the bullies the chance to know your true character, at least for my own part i'll try my best! Better Divine Beloved have Her way with me completely, than any crappy people; unconditional love is first of all for *All that Is*, which is Love again; so i have trust She won't lead me anywhere that grows hate and fear or any bullyship.

: : Now, lets se where this post lands! I try to put it where you tried to put the post cited below.

: : I have been trying to understand what those school yard bullies thought they did when torturing me. I don%rsquot think they fully understood what they did. Probably they thought it was some kind of funny game (role play), which was basically consensual, although they sometimes (read: always) freaked out and (as they might have said) %ldquotook it a little bit too far%rdquo.

: : But what did they think when they where at their worse? On many occasions, such as when the boy tackled me into the basin and accused me of having destroyed it, and of being a %ldquodestroyer%rdquo, I am rather sure they acted out some kind of script, most likely from situations where they had been abused or had other traumatic experiences. I suppose you are right when suggesting that many of these kids were abused, and they kind of %ldquopassed it on%rdquo to me.

: : On other occasions they were probably more aware of what they did. It was some kind of experiment. Testing the limits, copying events from pulp magazines or films, boosting and showing younger boys what could be done etc. E.g., I remember once there were two or three two or three years older boys holding my arms behind my back and holding me still while a smaller kid, who was one year younger than me, was punching my face with his fist over and over again, each time collecting his swings from far behind his back. (Maybe this younger boy was ashamed of what he did, because later (when I was 11 or 12) we made really good friends for several years, which made a major change in my life. In the weekends and holidays I often visited him in his village (and even lived there for periods), where the kids and adults of all ages kept together and were much nicer to each others than in my village. While playing with this kids I suddenly found out I was often the leader, as my friend was very popular and I was stronger and better on many sports than him and the other kids. This did a lot to my self confidence.)

: : The abuse often started as what at least looked like an innocent kids%rsquo game. Then it went out of hand. But sometimes I managed to stop it from going out of hand. This was when I was able to make the bullies laugh instead of getting furious, or whatever they did. This was rather late, when I was old enough to have some self esteem.

: : When it comes to me, I was mostly only confused. I was overwhelmed with unendurable pain and did not know what to think or what to do. Even if I was physically punished three times by my parents, the atmosphere in my home was, much thank to my mother, very nice and generous (although strong negative feelings or complaints were not allowed) and very different from what some of the other kids were used to. So, when I started school I had the natural self confidence of a kid who has never been confronted with evil. And this is known to make abused kids furious. I did not even try to fight back effectively, when it was not just for fun, as fighting and wishing to hurt others was simply not part of my world. In many ways I was the most innocent victim you could imagine. I was too different from them to adjust to the new environment and start to abuse other kids myself. And I had no strategies to defend myself. I never learned to fight or fought back seriously even when I was later attacked by smaller kids. It just wasn%rsquot me. I noticed that other kids started crying when they were abused by bullies, so I did too, but it helped only for a while. Sometimes, when the physical abuse was very severe, I thought that if I just let it go on they would seriously hurt me so that the abuse became so obvious that someone would have to do something about it, but that never happened. Still I did not perceive myself as innocent or was consciously holding the other cheek. I did not understand that they were abused. If I had any thoughts about that, I probably just thought they lost their minds and didn%rsquot know what they did. That was because when they did not abuse me, most of them could be really nice. Still I was chocked and disgusted by their behavior.

: : On basis of these observations, I suppose I should also ask how my reaction to the bullies%rsquo first attacks might have influenced them. Most likely, I would have avoided much of the bullying had I reacted differently. It might have helped if I had managed to just laugh at them, at least if I had managed to make them laugh too. And maybe it would also have worked if I had turned mad, fist fighting, kicking and screaming at them. If I had managed to hurt any of them this might have made them think twice before they attacked me again. But I also wonder what they thought about me and my reaction to their harassment. The other boy who was bullied, who was probably three years younger than me, was perceived as somewhat proud because he did not speak the local dialect and spoke in a way that somehow indicated that he considered himself very important. I did not act like that, but my speech might still have been somewhat different from the other boys%rsquo, as my mother did not speak the local dialect. It is also possible, that when I reacted with disgust to their behavior they might have perceived me as proud in some way, or at least different, as they were probably used to harassment from their homes and that the reaction they saw in my eyes reminded them of their own torments.

: : Yes, %ldquothe curse of these often repeated rituals%rdquo still seems to weigh heavily on me, especially as I am still bullied. But %ldquostill%rdquo is not the right word here. I wasn%rsquot bullied for about 20 years; then it started at my workplace. Now it is obvious to me that much of this stuff is related to the heart chakra and I suppose it might have been from the beginning. The reason why I am bullied to day is obvious. I am very good at my job, while most of the bullies are not and I suspect they fear being exposed for incompetence. So they have to use other means to keep me back at their level of success %ndash or at least try to. As the present managers are also more or less involved they encourage the bullies to make accusations and tell them lies about me. This is a difficult situation. It does not help me if I manage to feel better %ndash I am still in their hands.

[Vyana]

Wow! This IS a funny board! Actually, I tried to put this answer to your post above my latest post (where you tried to put your), but instead it ended up right above your latest post! So I concluded there is a reason why our discussion has been redirected to another part of the thread. And it is true that our discussion has taken another turn with these latest posts. I have dealt with my childhood bullying on many levels and kind of passed on to my present situation. A lot of feelings have come up. After my last therapy session, my yoga therapist told there has been a solution to the bullying memories in my subconscious, so that they will not interfere so much with my life in the future. Then I also concluded that there is a reason why our posts ended up exactly where they did. Therefore, I read my latest post in this part of the thread again. Today, the meaning of my vision of a dark corridor and of men in black suits is rather obvious, I think. I met those men at my mother%rsquos funeral a week ago. And indeed, the grief from loosing my mother is like a dark corridor I have to pass through.

Now, the rest of my last post in this %ldquonew%rdquo part of the thread was about DB and female versus male elements in the subconscious. DB is also a major element in your last post. At my last therapy session, my therapist advised me a meditation to balance the male and female elements of my subconscious (I haven%rsquot started practicing it yet). This morning, while practicing yoga, I had a vision where I was sitting in a small hollow. Right in front of me appeared a magnificent cobra. It might best be described as speckled orange-colored. First I was scared. I looked to the left; there was another similar, maybe somewhat smaller snake. Then I thought I had to just keep very still and relax, trust that the snakes would not harm me (actually the thought crossed my mind: %ldquoThis works in visions, but will it work in reality?%rdquo). Then I looked to the right. There was no snake, and for some reason that felt kind of %ldquoempty%rdquo. The meaning of this appears as rather obvious: the left snake (Pingala) is more active than the right (Ida), which symbolizes female qualities. The first snake is the kundalini. Last night, before I went to sleep, I had a vision of a girl kind of trying to manifest for my inner vision. This was rather subtle, but she had a kind of power of her own, which made her strike out as different from normal products of my imagination. So, I hope this is DB starting to manifest at the visual level. She is very welcome indeed!

The solution you describe %ndash Love and Strength (ideally) %ndash is probably very adequate for my present bullying situation. This is also the root of my problem, I believe. I have been a teacher for many years. When I first started teaching I was 20 years old. I got a few occasional assignments as substitute teacher at some extremely turbulent elementary schools, where it seemed as if the other teachers needed substitute teachers as a kind of psychological barrier towards the uncontrolled teenagers we tried to teach. At first I was shocked by the lack of order and the indecent behavior the kids exposed. I tried to listen to advices, but they only made my discipline problems worse. Then, eventually I started to control my own reactions instead, and things changed a lot. Basically, I just relaxed, let go of my fear and started to trust the pupils and treat them as if they were the pupils I wanted them to be. Then they started to live up to my expectations. Basically, when I started to treat them as responsible adults they started to behave as such. Therefore, when I started to teach at the university, I had no problems to comfortably slip into the teacher role. Actually I got very popular with the students right from the start. The bullies have often defamed me amongst the students, but they never managed to get my student evaluations below normal figures. (One funny thing: Las semester I did very well as a teacher but at the end of the semester there was a massive defamation campaign resulting in evaluation figures only somewhat above normal. This semester, my course was heavily defamed from the beginning and some students even quit because of the intense slander right at the beginning. This semester I have felt really bad (intense yogic practices, cleansing and severe problems with my sleep) and performed rather mediocre as a teacher. Still I got top figures, better then in many years, in the evaluation.)

So, the solution is not to become a bully, but to show both Love and Strength. As a young teacher I hade some basic strength, following from my formal position and from the fact that I was a few (3-8) years older than most of my pupils (I also had older pupils, but then there were no severe discipline problems). At the university I have my formal position as a PhD, professor and holder of a chair for many years. I am older then some of my bullies, but probably younger than most of them. Still, this does not matter so much. What really matters in this place is the informal hierarchy. And this is basically at the root of my problem.

In many ways, I am the natural leader at my work-place. (This will sound as I am boosting, but it is an essential part of the picture.) My productivity and reputation as a scientist are outstanding. Virtually everybody are coping my ideas in teaching and often also in science. The main courses in my area (with hundreds of students) were basically created on basis of my ideas 15 years ago. My formal plans for the course I was in charge of about ten years ago are still used and have been copied by virtually all other courses at the work-place. They don%rsquot use any of my text books any more, but the stipulated goals for the students are still those I once wrote on bases of my text book on methodology in our area, which was the standard book in this area for about 10 years (until a few years after I was heavily defamed about ten years ago). When I was once allowed to become a low level manager, I created what was probably the first and this far also the last functional teem of teachers at this work-place and got very popular amongst the teachers. At meetings, I often have a lot of ideas which are most often bought by the others. Now and them, my colleagues later present my ideas as their own. So, what the informal leaders fear is that I will automatically take their position when I manage to get out of the bullying cage they have managed to manipulate me into.

So my problem is, how can I show strength in a position where I am heavily defamed and low level personnel are even encouraged to report everything I ever say or do as some kind of harassment or at least not politically correct to the managers and actually feel safe enough to do so to? Even the people that like me never dare to say so; instead they play the same game as the others, pretending I am some kind of asocial monster. Of course, there are a few glimpses of hope in the misery. My appointed victim at the major event I have been accused of is giving me some support. And the higher self negotiation with the girl who has accused me the most showed me she is actually in love with me. But they would probably not dare to speak up even if I managed to convince this other girl to support me too. There is also a young course manager who has recently decided to use two of my books at his course, although I am not sure of his motives or of how he is handling the criticism that might follow from the bullies. Maybe I should try to initiate a conversation with the people in charge of my old course, which I criticized heavily at two meetings late last semester and early this semester. At least I might have scared them a little bit.

I don%rsquot know if any of my bullies and their bystanders is mad in the traditional sense. Some of them give the impression that they might be psychopaths though. But bullying is in itself a kind of madness. The bullies project the %ldquobad person%rdquo label upon me (as they did on others before me), and they manage to get everyone, partly even me, caught up in their projections. People start to imagine things that I am supposed to have done or said, but which are only fantasies. They tell others about it and then a rumor is created, which is after some time transformed into a truth (or The Truth) in a lot of peoples heads. Thus the madness grows over the years. This makes it difficult to show them my true character. It has been there for them to se all the time, but they just don%rsquot want to. They only se their own projections instead.

Therefore, I do indeed need to be convincing in my behavior. I can%rsquot allow myself to be confused by crazy accusations; because they will interpret confusion (or any emotional reaction) as a token of guilt. Funny you speak about actors here. Two weeks ago I participated in an acting performance course, where we where taught to connect to our %ldquotrue%rdquo inner feelings and act in a %ldquotrue%rdquo way from there. This course was very intense and brought up a lot of suppressed feelings. The love aspect does strike me as an equally severe problem. My heart chakra is often really active, overwhelming me with feelings of love. It should be enough for this, I hope. The major risk is probably that it would shut down if things do not go so well. At least I will have to deal with some other aspects before this becomes a problem.

[Vyana]

Posted by Mystress on May 25, 2007 at 00:21:19:
In Reply to: Re: Mirror Game / DB Shadow posted by jugaen on May 24, 2007 at 15:49:04:
What you guys don't get, is that your superior attitude toward bullies, is itself a type of bullying. On an energetic, telepathic level, what you are putting out... judging people and standing on their heads to feel better about yourself...?

- So, we take a superior attitude? I did not realize this and it is certainly not intended. I don%rsquot intend to judge anyone; I only feel a need to actually handle the situation on the physical level. As you say in one lesson; %ldquotie up your camels%rdquo. But I suppose there are quite a few pit holes to fall into when you try to describe a situation objectively in which you are emotionally involved. If I was trying to judge others and stand on their heads to feel better about myself, I wasn%rsquot aware of it. And it certainly didn%rsquot work, nor did I expect it to.

[juergen]

Thank You Mystress for Your timely beautiful words of wisdom of which i seemed to be so much in need.
They have started to work, which is still in progress.
It is also coincident that You named chivalry and King Arthur: since my last post i had started to read Deepak Chopra's The Way Of The Wizard, about Merlin and Arthur, The Grail, etc., it has rested unread in the shelves for a long time, since it is in French and went tedious to read... but now i had risen above this, and like it very much...just by the way.

: : all right your post seemed landed where yo expected, good trick!

: : The classic solution would probably be to become a bully, too.
: : Which You resisted, but have been lacking another answer as well.
: : So much could be said, about the psychology of stupid villagers, but to what avail.

: What you guys don't get, is that your superior attitude toward bullies, is itself a type of bullying. On an energetic, telepathic level, what you are putting out... judging people and standing on their heads to feel better about yourself...?

:    Even pacifist Gandhi said "It is better to be violent, if there is violence in your heart, than to put on a cloak of non violence to cover impotence." These judgments and projections you send out, they are violence. Your thoughts have power. The worst violence of course, is to yourself, your own spirit... giving power away to other people to be God for you.

:   Shadow, eh? What you think you are not. Us and them. We the special clever ones and the... what? Mundane masses of sheeple? An intellectual bully, is still a bully. We all choose the weapons that we have honed the sharpest.

:  
: : If i scan the Divine Beloved Higher Self Tandem, i arrive at: Love and Strength(ideally).
:  
: Personal integrity. The Buddha walks through the battlefield, unscathed. Arrows don't find him.  The key, is Grace... and like the song goes, humility is a huge part of that. Self created pedestals of ego superiority just don't fly.  Jesus washed feet.

:   Chivalry is beautiful because there is truth in it. Follow your dharma, be true to what you know is right. Choose love over fear. Put yourself in service to what is greater than yourself; follow your soul, your discernment.  

:    I have come to understand that FST level 2 is going to be a lot about personal integrity: stuff that to me seems common sense, but perhaps informed by a childhood spent reading Kipling and King Arthur.

:   People don't understand the value of personal integrity, really being treu to yourself- to Goddess within you. As surrender to the K fire opens the taps and the energy behind your attention goes from a puddle to a fire hose, following your dharma becomes a matter of self preservation. The karmic feedback of aiming it at self pity or ego indulgence, just kicks too hard.

:   The only control you have over the firehose, is where you choose to aim it, what you feed with the energy of your attention.

:   You have no control over how other people choose to think of you. Fear, makes the attempt to control and the battle is joined: the power chakra games of the astral are all manifest as obsession... and the more you feed it, the bigger it gets until, hello psychosis!

:   The path of clearing the power chakra, is victim stuff coming up to be surrendered, transcended... you rise above it, not to an ego pedestal, but to the heart. Not to control, but to love and accept your own reflection.

:   Like with the faces that come up in the mirror game: you don't have to understand them or know where they came from or what they are. Just, love and acceptance, to integrate. You are All. There is no us and them.

:   Blessings...

[juergen]

Vyana, i think i have to take this on my cap alone, since it was me who used the term "stupid villagers"; this was meant partly ironic, since i have myself a lot of a 'stupid villager' within me; i think it's a common term, certainly a term of judgement, however mostly ironic and not so much on the bad part side, rather grey zone, and i didn't want to judge it further so i did without quotation marks.
This formulation however must have given our discussion a pointed aspect, maybe provocative, so Mystress jumped in.
Now the amazing thing, is She's absolutely making points; Her comments giving me so much to think and correct myself!

Because regardless, of how much intellectual superiority claim of any of us might be involved, there is still this 'us and them thing', the advice to rise above victim stuff/power chakra..to the heart, and lots of hints, never expressed so tangibly; so i get over the sticks easily thanking Her for all these carrots!

: Posted by Mystress on May 25, 2007 at 00:21:19:
: In Reply to: Re: Mirror Game / DB Shadow posted by jugaen on May 24, 2007 at 15:49:04:
: What you guys don't get, is that your superior attitude toward bullies, is itself a type of bullying. On an energetic, telepathic level, what you are putting out... judging people and standing on their heads to feel better about yourself...?

: - So, we take a superior attitude? I did not realize this and it is certainly not intended. I don%rsquot intend to judge anyone; I only feel a need to actually handle the situation on the physical level. As you say in one lesson; %ldquotie up your camels%rdquo. But I suppose there are quite a few pit holes to fall into when you try to describe a situation objectively in which you are emotionally involved. If I was trying to judge others and stand on their heads to feel better about myself, I wasn%rsquot aware of it. And it certainly didn%rsquot work, nor did I expect it to.

[juergen]

Now, that i sort of meditated about Mystress's last post, i found that i seem to be missing the centre, in my latest post, and i have been very uppish there.
What i also had in mind but didn't mention, is the other side: that bully-boys have as much reason or no reason to be uppish as the violence-shunning intellectuals; now here it is.
This has been clear to me for many years, since my dad (proudly) related a story of a clashing of two groups in pre-nazi germany, one communists, one nazis, where the nazis had the (violent)initiative and the communists somewhat got the worst of it.
Knowing my own temperament near to the communists i was aware since then i'm lacking s.th., that i would have still some audacity to achieve or like i call it now: to integrate.

From the perspective of ALL, we should accept that we have made this world principally violent, with death, one eating the other, different types of intimidations and individuals of these types, so firstly we have to take responsibility for all of this.
And there is a certain balance, so that free will of all individuals has an exercise field to train, to eventually become a good servant of their Divine beloveds.

Scientists are no exceptions since science has emerged as an appendix of militarism and always stayed there, (hi Mr. Einstein).
And all tyrannic types(except Mr.Gandhi and a few) had in common to reject that responsibility, Einstein for one 'made in peace movement' after promoting the bomb, giving completely the innocent child.. and so have most.

So from Goddess perspective we caused that separation, and at some point it is time to heal this, which is as soon as we submit to our better halfs.
This is what i understand so far by integration.

Historically it also appears, that it's time for change not only on singular individual levels, but on many individual levels, since technology advances into incontrollable dimensions and balance cannot be held longer under the old paradigm.
Now it goes without saying that scientists can be bully-boys and bully-boys be scientists(girls please find your respective places).
But integration only works thru certain secondary conditions, like humility, personal integrity, so this will not turn into super-bullies.
There is only one axiom i have to accept: that Goddess has it handled, that empowered individuals won't go destructive, that i wouldn't go destructive.
That integrated tyrants become pacifists.

Dealing with scheming colleagues would show up as healing o.s. and would be done by consulting Love, an all knowing resource of a much greater background than the brain.

What we finally do can certainly include the physical plane, the difference is that we no more need to rack our brains over this.

Thus, we have the power chakra vs heart: "rise above it...to the heart"!
The heart chakra is the place of integration (and growth) situated between the 3rd and the 5th.
The 3rd becomes the energy of our attention, where to aim the 'firehose'; the 3rd comes from being a puddle and is replaced by the vast energy of the firehose...
...obviously the Unconscious, The Divine Beloved, to Who free will has been surrendered to.
Since considering Mystress' post i have centered my general focus to the chest/heart region and have found it greatly beneficient. Stomach troubles have subsided together with throat issues, with a feeling of peace and fearlessness. Just like a grounding effect. Even legs feel more grounded, tingling.
I guess you have already made some moves to this since early school time, so keep to the good work!

: Wow! This IS a funny board! Actually, I tried to put this answer to your post above my latest post (where you tried to put your), but instead it ended up right above your latest post! So I concluded there is a reason why our discussion has been redirected to another part of the thread. And it is true that our discussion has taken another turn with these latest posts. I have dealt with my childhood bullying on many levels and kind of passed on to my present situation. A lot of feelings have come up. After my last therapy session, my yoga therapist told there has been a solution to the bullying memories in my subconscious, so that they will not interfere so much with my life in the future. Then I also concluded that there is a reason why our posts ended up exactly where they did. Therefore, I read my latest post in this part of the thread again. Today, the meaning of my vision of a dark corridor and of men in black suits is rather obvious, I think. I met those men at my mother%rsquos funeral a week ago. And indeed, the grief from loosing my mother is like a dark corridor I have to pass through.

: Now, the rest of my last post in this %ldquonew%rdquo part of the thread was about DB and female versus male elements in the subconscious. DB is also a major element in your last post. At my last therapy session, my therapist advised me a meditation to balance the male and female elements of my subconscious (I haven%rsquot started practicing it yet). This morning, while practicing yoga, I had a vision where I was sitting in a small hollow. Right in front of me appeared a magnificent cobra. It might best be described as speckled orange-colored. First I was scared. I looked to the left; there was another similar, maybe somewhat smaller snake. Then I thought I had to just keep very still and relax, trust that the snakes would not harm me (actually the thought crossed my mind: %ldquoThis works in visions, but will it work in reality?%rdquo). Then I looked to the right. There was no snake, and for some reason that felt kind of %ldquoempty%rdquo. The meaning of this appears as rather obvious: the left snake (Pingala) is more active than the right (Ida), which symbolizes female qualities. The first snake is the kundalini. Last night, before I went to sleep, I had a vision of a girl kind of trying to manifest for my inner vision. This was rather subtle, but she had a kind of power of her own, which made her strike out as different from normal products of my imagination. So, I hope this is DB starting to manifest at the visual level. She is very welcome indeed!

: The solution you describe %ndash Love and Strength (ideally) %ndash is probably very adequate for my present bullying situation. This is also the root of my problem, I believe. I have been a teacher for many years. When I first started teaching I was 20 years old. I got a few occasional assignments as substitute teacher at some extremely turbulent elementary schools, where it seemed as if the other teachers needed substitute teachers as a kind of psychological barrier towards the uncontrolled teenagers we tried to teach. At first I was shocked by the lack of order and the indecent behavior the kids exposed. I tried to listen to advices, but they only made my discipline problems worse. Then, eventually I started to control my own reactions instead, and things changed a lot. Basically, I just relaxed, let go of my fear and started to trust the pupils and treat them as if they were the pupils I wanted them to be. Then they started to live up to my expectations. Basically, when I started to treat them as responsible adults they started to behave as such. Therefore, when I started to teach at the university, I had no problems to comfortably slip into the teacher role. Actually I got very popular with the students right from the start. The bullies have often defamed me amongst the students, but they never managed to get my student evaluations below normal figures. (One funny thing: Las semester I did very well as a teacher but at the end of the semester there was a massive defamation campaign resulting in evaluation figures only somewhat above normal. This semester, my course was heavily defamed from the beginning and some students even quit because of the intense slander right at the beginning. This semester I have felt really bad (intense yogic practices, cleansing and severe problems with my sleep) and performed rather mediocre as a teacher. Still I got top figures, better then in many years, in the evaluation.)

: So, the solution is not to become a bully, but to show both Love and Strength. As a young teacher I hade some basic strength, following from my formal position and from the fact that I was a few (3-8) years older than most of my pupils (I also had older pupils, but then there were no severe discipline problems). At the university I have my formal position as a PhD, professor and holder of a chair for many years. I am older then some of my bullies, but probably younger than most of them. Still, this does not matter so much. What really matters in this place is the informal hierarchy. And this is basically at the root of my problem.

: In many ways, I am the natural leader at my work-place. (This will sound as I am boosting, but it is an essential part of the picture.) My productivity and reputation as a scientist are outstanding. Virtually everybody are coping my ideas in teaching and often also in science. The main courses in my area (with hundreds of students) were basically created on basis of my ideas 15 years ago. My formal plans for the course I was in charge of about ten years ago are still used and have been copied by virtually all other courses at the work-place. They don%rsquot use any of my text books any more, but the stipulated goals for the students are still those I once wrote on bases of my text book on methodology in our area, which was the standard book in this area for about 10 years (until a few years after I was heavily defamed about ten years ago). When I was once allowed to become a low level manager, I created what was probably the first and this far also the last functional teem of teachers at this work-place and got very popular amongst the teachers. At meetings, I often have a lot of ideas which are most often bought by the others. Now and them, my colleagues later present my ideas as their own. So, what the informal leaders fear is that I will automatically take their position when I manage to get out of the bullying cage they have managed to manipulate me into.

: So my problem is, how can I show strength in a position where I am heavily defamed and low level personnel are even encouraged to report everything I ever say or do as some kind of harassment or at least not politically correct to the managers and actually feel safe enough to do so to? Even the people that like me never dare to say so; instead they play the same game as the others, pretending I am some kind of asocial monster. Of course, there are a few glimpses of hope in the misery. My appointed victim at the major event I have been accused of is giving me some support. And the higher self negotiation with the girl who has accused me the most showed me she is actually in love with me. But they would probably not dare to speak up even if I managed to convince this other girl to support me too. There is also a young course manager who has recently decided to use two of my books at his course, although I am not sure of his motives or of how he is handling the criticism that might follow from the bullies. Maybe I should try to initiate a conversation with the people in charge of my old course, which I criticized heavily at two meetings late last semester and early this semester. At least I might have scared them a little bit.

: I don%rsquot know if any of my bullies and their bystanders is mad in the traditional sense. Some of them give the impression that they might be psychopaths though. But bullying is in itself a kind of madness. The bullies project the %ldquobad person%rdquo label upon me (as they did on others before me), and they manage to get everyone, partly even me, caught up in their projections. People start to imagine things that I am supposed to have done or said, but which are only fantasies. They tell others about it and then a rumor is created, which is after some time transformed into a truth (or The Truth) in a lot of peoples heads. Thus the madness grows over the years. This makes it difficult to show them my true character. It has been there for them to se all the time, but they just don%rsquot want to. They only se their own projections instead.

: Therefore, I do indeed need to be convincing in my behavior. I can%rsquot allow myself to be confused by crazy accusations; because they will interpret confusion (or any emotional reaction) as a token of guilt. Funny you speak about actors here. Two weeks ago I participated in an acting performance course, where we where taught to connect to our %ldquotrue%rdquo inner feelings and act in a %ldquotrue%rdquo way from there. This course was very intense and brought up a lot of suppressed feelings. The love aspect does strike me as an equally severe problem. My heart chakra is often really active, overwhelming me with feelings of love. It should be enough for this, I hope. The major risk is probably that it would shut down if things do not go so well. At least I will have to deal with some other aspects before this becomes a problem.

[Mystress]

: Posted by Mystress on May 25, 2007 at 00:21:19:
: In Reply to: Re: Mirror Game / DB Shadow posted by jugaen on May 24, 2007 at 15:49:04:

Search the archives, re-read your posts about bullying as if they belong to someone else... someone you don't like or trust.

 We did go through this, my asking the other students impressions of a post you wrote. You were not willing to accept any of it.

 It is a natural reaction eh? The child goes "Waaaah, why don't they like me? Then soothes the wounded ego with the comforting explanation: "Because they suck! Losers!" ..

 The grapes are probably sour anyway, said the fox in the fable...

 Yeah, you take a superior attitude... and as the Japanese say, "the nail that sticks up, gets hammered down."  

 You will get it eventually. I have faith. Blessings...  

: - So, we take a superior attitude? I did not realize this and it is certainly not intended. I don%rsquot intend to judge anyone; I only feel a need to actually handle the situation on the physical level. As you say in one lesson; %ldquotie up your camels%rdquo. But I suppose there are quite a few pit holes to fall into when you try to describe a situation objectively in which you are emotionally involved. If I was trying to judge others and stand on their heads to feel better about myself, I wasn%rsquot aware of it. And it certainly didn%rsquot work, nor did I expect it to.

[Vyana]

Somehow, I would like to get back to the core of my childhood bullying experience, which is more important for me, at least right now, than any dimension of relationship with or attitude towards bullies. There was something here, which I don%rsquot remember or understand correctly, although the discussion here has been really helpful. Somehow, my reaction to the bullying was not only or even primarily %ldquoWhy do you do this to me?%rdquo but maybe even more of %ldquoWhy do you do this to yourself?%rdquo. And when I did not defend myself effectively when it would have taken causing harm or pain to the bullies, this behavior came so natural to me that I just can%rsquot believe I had got it all wrong. Mystress has suggested that the bullies%rsquo behavior was normal amongst boys, testing their strength on each other. Still, I don%rsquot think it was normal. It was simply too extreme. A lot of kids were really hurt fir life at that school. It%rsquos like relationships between dogs or other animals. A dog doesn%rsquot hurt another dog if there is not something very wrong with it. The puppies are playing, but they don%rsquot hurt each other. Today, I also have two kids at school (and before they spent many years at kindergartens) and it seems that such things as took place at that school yard when I was a boy never happen. For a while there was one kid attacking other kids physically, but she was sick. Therefore, I would suggest that a normal, healthy human being has some kind of blockage, of the same kind that dogs do have, which keep them from harming other people.