Salvia D

[Jeremy]

I can%rsquot believe I am asking this question.  Perhaps it%rsquos because I feel it will be frowned upon or I assume people will form opinions.  Oh well.  

I have been considering experimenting with Saliva for a long time now.  For spiritual reasons only.  For more info on Saliva here are a couple of links;

http://www.sagewisdom.org/

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Salvia_divinorum.shtml

It is used in Shamanism and for meditation etc and many reports of a female goddess entity appearing to them with wisdom and insights.  I am sure that lots of you know that Shamans sometimes use blends with hallucinogenic properties such as Ayahuasca.  I ponder though if in fact such practice would actually hinder what I am trying to attain by creating blockages or karma.  At this point I am not going to pursue this but I find it turns up lots (me looking I guess) and each time I find myself compelled to investigate.  Is this a dead end or does anyone believe there is value in this type of practice?

[edward]

Dear Jeremy,

I will not be surprised if some people react negatively to this because they have:
1. no experience using drugs in spiritual context.
2. negative experience using drugs.
3. no experience using drugs at all.
...any other reasons.

You should not be ashamed to ask this question. People have used drugs to expand their consciousness, gain insights and develop themselves spiritually and personally, throughout history.
There is even a yoga based upon the use of these sacred herbs and plants. However, the ancient practice of this type of yoga is not known today, the texts and knowledge are hidden away
because the practice was considered too dangerous for ordinary people to engage in. In tantric practice the use of cannabis is very common.

Have you used other types of entheogens before?

Do you have any experience using other types of drugs, "natural" (such as cannabis) and chemically prepared (such as MDMA and LSD)?

Your question is if the use of this entheogen can hinder your spiritual development by creating blockages or karma.

I can only speak put of my own experiences with these sacred herbs and plants. I%rsquove never tried Salvia, but I%rsquove used mushrooms and cannabis as a recreational activity, following long term effects and changes at personal and spiritual levels.

I was 18 years old when I used mushrooms (an entheogen) a few times, now I%rsquom 24 years old. I will probably never do it again, not because the experiences where negative in any way, but my perceptions
changed dramatically during the "trips" and the changes were permanent.

The use of entheogens may give you insight about other people, yourself and reality %ndash but it can also crush the illusions you have about people, yourself and reality. Dramatically and permanently. So, if you resist these changes and your ego tries to hold on to old beliefs and illusions the result may be complete havoc.

It%rsquos just like the kundalini process. If you resist the process by holding onto old beliefs and illusions you will stagnate the process, and the result will be more blockages and karma. The difference between the Kundalini Shakti and the Plant Spirit of the entheogens I think is that you can ask Kundalini Shakti to go on with the process more gently, but with the Plant Spirit  you can%rsquot. The Plant Spirit is more wild, and it will give you its knowledge without considering your current personal and spiritual development.

I recommend you read these threads. It%rsquos not about experience with entheogens, but LSD:
http://www.fire-serpent.com/tantra/cgi-bin/bb/messages/2192.html
http://www.fire-serpent.com/tantra/cgi-bin/bb/messages/2229.html

Use your discernment (heart and power chakra) to find out if this is something for you.

If you decide to go on with this, I wish you a happy journey. It may only be an amusing experience or something bigger and more serious.

Remember to read about good experiences (and not negative experiences) other people have had using Salvia. You do not want to bring fear into the trip, as what you fear and focus on can manifest in your trip.

Also, ask Goddess, your guides or whatever to protect and guide you during the trip. Contact the Spirit of the Salvia before the trip, make a connection to it. Tell it your intentions and wishes. Maybe you should honour it by giving an offering to it. If you treat the Plant Spirit with respect it will treat you the same way.

Edward

[Jeremy]

Hi Edward,

Thanks for your response.  You seem quite informed and I read the links you posted with interest.  I have had experience with ethonogens, LSD, MDMA and most everything you can think of when I was at high school.  I was particularly drawn to LSD and have had many journeys and very profound experiences with it.  The interesting thing about Daniel Tynan%rsquos account is I have had the same experience but long before I took any mind altering substances.  As a child I used to see things flying around the room, I remember once I had my mom, brother and sister with me and I was asking them if they could see them too! But they could not.  Before my teens I had a long period where my body would shake and I felt overwhelmed with feelings.  I thought it would never end and it lasted somewhere into my mid teens.  Sometimes I would wake in the night and be overwhelmed and eventually fear would consume me.  I felt like dying for a long time, a horrible part of my life that was.  I eventually learned that it I lay on my front and took deep breaths I could slow the shaking down and sleep.  It would happen while watching TV, at primary school, anywhere.  I would just take it and resist all I could.  I never told anyone about this - I was only a small kid.  

Some time (can%rsquot remember when) it all stopped.  I no longer see things flying around (apart from Chi sometimes %ndash like silver droplets weaving in and out of my vision) and it seems a distant almost unreal memory.  Kind of like a dream.  So I am not insane!! Hooray! My experimenting with LSD finished long ago after all this (I started on acid at about 15).  I vowed never to take it again each time I had a terrifying experience.  My experiences though unlike Daniel%rsquos did not physiologically affect me in such a negative way afterwards.  My experiences as a kid were worse!  Now, I do not take anything at all, and haven%rsquot for a long time.  I don%rsquot even drink alcohol at the moment.  Perhaps I should just leave it and take the slow pace.  Salvia by all accounts is very different than any other hallucinogen (beside perhaps DMT).  It is impossible to resist and with enough you are transported to other worlds in seconds.  The choice to surrender is not an option.  Perhaps I should wait until further along in my journey before I consider this path if at all.  I am sure Goddess can take me anywhere I need to go without any herbal assistance.  If it happens though, I will be sure to post an account.  

Thanks,

Jeremy

:
: Dear Jeremy,

: I will not be surprised if some people react negatively to this because they have:
: 1. no experience using drugs in spiritual context.
: 2. negative experience using drugs.
: 3. no experience using drugs at all.
: ...any other reasons.

: You should not be ashamed to ask this question. People have used drugs to expand their consciousness, gain insights and develop themselves spiritually and personally, throughout history.
: There is even a yoga based upon the use of these sacred herbs and plants. However, the ancient practice of this type of yoga is not known today, the texts and knowledge are hidden away
: because the practice was considered too dangerous for ordinary people to engage in. In tantric practice the use of cannabis is very common.

:
: Have you used other types of entheogens before?

: Do you have any experience using other types of drugs, "natural" (such as cannabis) and chemically prepared (such as MDMA and LSD)?

:
: Your question is if the use of this entheogen can hinder your spiritual development by creating blockages or karma.

: I can only speak put of my own experiences with these sacred herbs and plants. I%rsquove never tried Salvia, but I%rsquove used mushrooms and cannabis as a recreational activity, following long term effects and changes at personal and spiritual levels.

: I was 18 years old when I used mushrooms (an entheogen) a few times, now I%rsquom 24 years old. I will probably never do it again, not because the experiences where negative in any way, but my perceptions
: changed dramatically during the "trips" and the changes were permanent.

: The use of entheogens may give you insight about other people, yourself and reality %ndash but it can also crush the illusions you have about people, yourself and reality. Dramatically and permanently. So, if you resist these changes and your ego tries to hold on to old beliefs and illusions the result may be complete havoc.

: It%rsquos just like the kundalini process. If you resist the process by holding onto old beliefs and illusions you will stagnate the process, and the result will be more blockages and karma. The difference between the Kundalini Shakti and the Plant Spirit of the entheogens I think is that you can ask Kundalini Shakti to go on with the process more gently, but with the Plant Spirit  you can%rsquot. The Plant Spirit is more wild, and it will give you its knowledge without considering your current personal and spiritual development.

: I recommend you read these threads. It%rsquos not about experience with entheogens, but LSD:
: http://www.fire-serpent.com/tantra/cgi-bin/bb/messages/2192.html
: http://www.fire-serpent.com/tantra/cgi-bin/bb/messages/2229.html

:
: Use your discernment (heart and power chakra) to find out if this is something for you.

: If you decide to go on with this, I wish you a happy journey. It may only be an amusing experience or something bigger and more serious.

: Remember to read about good experiences (and not negative experiences) other people have had using Salvia. You do not want to bring fear into the trip, as what you fear and focus on can manifest in your trip.

: Also, ask Goddess, your guides or whatever to protect and guide you during the trip. Contact the Spirit of the Salvia before the trip, make a connection to it. Tell it your intentions and wishes. Maybe you should honour it by giving an offering to it. If you treat the Plant Spirit with respect it will treat you the same way.

:
: Edward

[juergen]

Hello Jeremy,

I was puzzled when i heard that, but human saliva was compared to snake poison; because it was said that human bitings are the most deadly of all; for the saliva of course.
Only make a difference between administering it through the digestive tract(what we do continually) and through the blood-system(the deadly variant; unbelievable, but i decided not to try).

So what can be deadly can be possibly healing, but it doesn't sound promising: just 2 unspecific! good for the magazines and for hunters and gatherers )

cheers,

juergen.

: I can%rsquot believe I am asking this question.  Perhaps it%rsquos because I feel it will be frowned upon or I assume people will form opinions.  Oh well.  

: I have been considering experimenting with Saliva for a long time now.  For spiritual reasons only.  For more info on Saliva here are a couple of links;

: http://www.sagewisdom.org/

: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Salvia_divinorum.shtml

: It is used in Shamanism and for meditation etc and many reports of a female goddess entity appearing to them with wisdom and insights.  I am sure that lots of you know that Shamans sometimes use blends with hallucinogenic properties such as Ayahuasca.  I ponder though if in fact such practice would actually hinder what I am trying to attain by creating blockages or karma.  At this point I am not going to pursue this but I find it turns up lots (me looking I guess) and each time I find myself compelled to investigate.  Is this a dead end or does anyone believe there is value in this type of practice?

[Mystress]

Not saliva... Salvia divinitorum is a hallucinogenic herb...

: Hello Jeremy,

: I was puzzled when i heard that, but human saliva was compared to snake poison; because it was said that human bitings are the most deadly of all; for the saliva of course.
: Only make a difference between administering it through the digestive tract(what we do continually) and through the blood-system(the deadly variant; unbelievable, but i decided not to try).

: So what can be deadly can be possibly healing, but it doesn't sound promising: just 2 unspecific! good for the magazines and for hunters and gatherers )

: cheers,

: juergen.

: : I can%rsquot believe I am asking this question.  Perhaps it%rsquos because I feel it will be frowned upon or I assume people will form opinions.  Oh well.  

: : I have been considering experimenting with Saliva for a long time now.  For spiritual reasons only.  For more info on Saliva here are a couple of links;

: : http://www.sagewisdom.org/

: : http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Salvia_divinorum.shtml

: : It is used in Shamanism and for meditation etc and many reports of a female goddess entity appearing to them with wisdom and insights.  I am sure that lots of you know that Shamans sometimes use blends with hallucinogenic properties such as Ayahuasca.  I ponder though if in fact such practice would actually hinder what I am trying to attain by creating blockages or karma.  At this point I am not going to pursue this but I find it turns up lots (me looking I guess) and each time I find myself compelled to investigate.  Is this a dead end or does anyone believe there is value in this type of practice?

[Mystress]

  I tried salvia last spring, in Belgium. Had some interesting hallucinations... but no big insights. The green lady hung around now and then for a few months after... calling me to come back to her world. Some hallucinogenic plant spirits will do that, promoting their use means more people will grow the plant... survival and propagation strategy.  

 Theoretically it is not addictive, but I think people develop an attachment to the altered state, and dependent on it for spiritual experiences.  

 She felt I should smoke more of it, (she runs marathons and I did not have the lung capacity for her home made bong) felt I was having "threshhold experiences" but I had several countries to pass through that day and was unwilling to risk compromising my emotional and physical wellbeing.  New things, in moderation. She tells a tale of some people smoking too much, especially of the concentrated stuff and not ever being quite the same again... messed up.

 When I got home I picked some up downtown, but I haven't had the urge to use it... not even sure where I put it.  She used a tea first, which she said was a vasodialator...  gave me some of that herb which is around here someplace.

If you are going to try it, be sure to have an experienced guide. Blessings...

: I can%rsquot believe I am asking this question.  Perhaps it%rsquos because I feel it will be frowned upon or I assume people will form opinions.  Oh well.  

: I have been considering experimenting with Saliva for a long time now.  For spiritual reasons only.  For more info on Saliva here are a couple of links;

: http://www.sagewisdom.org/

: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Salvia_divinorum.shtml

: It is used in Shamanism and for meditation etc and many reports of a female goddess entity appearing to them with wisdom and insights.  I am sure that lots of you know that Shamans sometimes use blends with hallucinogenic properties such as Ayahuasca.  I ponder though if in fact such practice would actually hinder what I am trying to attain by creating blockages or karma.  At this point I am not going to pursue this but I find it turns up lots (me looking I guess) and each time I find myself compelled to investigate.  Is this a dead end or does anyone believe there is value in this type of practice?

[juergen]

Thank's for the clarification!

i'm such an innocent unsuspecting thing.

88

juergen.

: Not saliva... Salvia divinitorum is a hallucinogenic herb...

: : Hello Jeremy,

: : I was puzzled when i heard that, but human saliva was compared to snake poison; because it was said that human bitings are the most deadly of all; for the saliva of course.
: : Only make a difference between administering it through the digestive tract(what we do continually) and through the blood-system(the deadly variant; unbelievable, but i decided not to try).

: : So what can be deadly can be possibly healing, but it doesn't sound promising: just 2 unspecific! good for the magazines and for hunters and gatherers )

: : cheers,

: : juergen.

: : : I can%rsquot believe I am asking this question.  Perhaps it%rsquos because I feel it will be frowned upon or I assume people will form opinions.  Oh well.  

: : : I have been considering experimenting with Saliva for a long time now.  For spiritual reasons only.  For more info on Saliva here are a couple of links;

: : : http://www.sagewisdom.org/

: : : http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Salvia_divinorum.shtml

: : : It is used in Shamanism and for meditation etc and many reports of a female goddess entity appearing to them with wisdom and insights.  I am sure that lots of you know that Shamans sometimes use blends with hallucinogenic properties such as Ayahuasca.  I ponder though if in fact such practice would actually hinder what I am trying to attain by creating blockages or karma.  At this point I am not going to pursue this but I find it turns up lots (me looking I guess) and each time I find myself compelled to investigate.  Is this a dead end or does anyone believe there is value in this type of practice?