Divine Beloved

[edward]

I am so happy right now!

Last night, while I was listening to a long grounding excercise
recorded on a CD, I totally let go.

Suddenly I had a vision of a female character sitting on my lap. I was holding around her with my arms. Then I physically felt that she was lying over me, I could feel her lips touch mine! So real, so strange, so beautiful! Such a sensual experience! I had no erection, but my whole body was filled with energetic orgasms. Tears were running from eyes like a flowing river. It is the most powerful and celestial experience!

I didn't know that it could be so real, so physical!

And I have no feelings of being dirty. I'm gay, and I usually feel dirty about the idea of something "intimate" with a lady. But it
was not like this now, it was a respectful and beautiful connection.

Wheeeeee!

Edward

[Mystress]

  I am so happy for you! Your post brings happy beauty tears to my eyes too.  

  I have been a little at odds with my work lately.  I did my annual ego death ritual in Sept and my newly reborn self is a little dis-satisfied with my inheritance... I am so burnt out on doing sessions, I am going to quit... my body just doesn't want to take on karma from people anymore...  but the writing and the teaching still gives me joy... and when people meet their Divine Beloved it is the most beautiful of all.

 Blessings...

:
: I am so happy right now!

: Last night, while I was listening to a long grounding excercise
: recorded on a CD, I totally let go.

: Suddenly I had a vision of a female character sitting on my lap. I was holding around her with my arms. Then I physically felt that she was lying over me, I could feel her lips touch mine! So real, so strange, so beautiful! Such a sensual experience! I had no erection, but my whole body was filled with energetic orgasms. Tears were running from eyes like a flowing river. It is the most powerful and celestial experience!

: I didn't know that it could be so real, so physical!

: And I have no feelings of being dirty. I'm gay, and I usually feel dirty about the idea of something "intimate" with a lady. But it
: was not like this now, it was a respectful and beautiful connection.

:
: Wheeeeee!

:
: Edward

[kittygrrl]

Not to hijack your beautiful post/experience Edward...reading Mystress' response made me remember a dream I had awhile back.  Mystress, you had closed down FST to all but five students, and after that you were planning on discontinuing. It was so bizarre...I'm glad it was just a dream, and a bad one at that I am sorry to hear about your burn out and experiences recently. I am glad you will continue to teach and write. I would think the type of help you provide would require you to take lots of breaks to take care of yourself. You can't help anybody without helping yourself first.

Take care  

:   I am so happy for you! Your post brings happy beauty tears to my eyes too.  

:    I have been a little at odds with my work lately.  I did my annual ego death ritual in Sept and my newly reborn self is a little dis-satisfied with my inheritance... I am so burnt out on doing sessions, I am going to quit... my body just doesn't want to take on karma from people anymore...  but the writing and the teaching still gives me joy... and when people meet their Divine Beloved it is the most beautiful of all.

:   Blessings...

: :
: : I am so happy right now!

: : Last night, while I was listening to a long grounding excercise
: : recorded on a CD, I totally let go.

: : Suddenly I had a vision of a female character sitting on my lap. I was holding around her with my arms. Then I physically felt that she was lying over me, I could feel her lips touch mine! So real, so strange, so beautiful! Such a sensual experience! I had no erection, but my whole body was filled with energetic orgasms. Tears were running from eyes like a flowing river. It is the most powerful and celestial experience!

: : I didn't know that it could be so real, so physical!

: : And I have no feelings of being dirty. I'm gay, and I usually feel dirty about the idea of something "intimate" with a lady. But it
: : was not like this now, it was a respectful and beautiful connection.

:
: :
: : Wheeeeee!

: :
: : Edward

[Vyana]

Well, I envy you! I adore women and love to be intimate with them; and still it seems I have only met the "secretary" of my DB. She is beautiful enough, but the images are rather faint and don%rsquot stay for long. And I never got the sensations of touch, only energy sensations. I never got the sensations that "real" as you and others describe them. You, on the other hand, say you usually feel dirty about the idea of something "intimate" with a lady%hellip Somehow, this just doesn%rsquot seem fair!

[Vyana]

Well, I am not surprised. I felt it coming. You are the most wonderful and efficient therapist I ever met and I will miss our sessions for sure. Thank you very much for them!! I appreciate what you have done for me more than words could tell.

When I had my first session I was scared to death for therapist, as others had made a mess of my whole energy system. But your session had the opposite effect and where still much more effective. Still, I understood how demanding it was and wondered for how long you would go on with it.

For about a year I have been looking for a therapist in my own country. None of them are of the right type. Maybe you can recommend some therapist who does telephone sessions in Canada or the US? Most of the therapist here just didn%rsquot feel right. When I found one who felt okay to test, the session worked fine, but there were some unexpected emotional effects afterwards, which where not totally unpleasant but still felt far from appropriate. However, this summer I met a rather young girl with a very special healing energy, whom I immediately felt confidence in. So, I will stick to her in the future when possible. But I keep looking for another intuitive therapist like you.

:   I have been a little at odds with my work lately.  I did my annual ego death ritual in Sept and my newly reborn self is a little dis-satisfied with my inheritance... I am so burnt out on doing sessions, I am going to quit... my body just doesn't want to take on karma from people anymore...  but the writing and the teaching still gives me joy... and when people meet their Divine Beloved it is the most beautiful of all.

:   Blessings...

[edward]

Are you sure you wanna envy me?

Yesterday I had a strange feeling in my "wiener". It was like it was getting split. It felt like it was becoming into an Yoni. Paris wrote that he felt his chest growing breats. Now I understand what he meant.

Now, luckily, the Yoni feeling is over, I like my "wiener". Today I feel like the body is splitting into two halves. Or maybe it's energy running upwards from the root chakra.

Also, I have no control over my limbs, I keep crashing into furniture. No co-ordination. It's like going through puberty all over again.

After all, it's fun. I feel like someone is playing tricks on me.

Edward

: Well, I envy you! I adore women and love to be intimate with them; and still it seems I have only met the "secretary" of my DB. She is beautiful enough, but the images are rather faint and don%rsquot stay for long. And I never got the sensations of touch, only energy sensations. I never got the sensations that "real" as you and others describe them. You, on the other hand, say you usually feel dirty about the idea of something "intimate" with a lady%hellip Somehow, this just doesn%rsquot seem fair!

[Vyana]

I suppose you%rsquore right. Breasts and yoni I can sure do without. I adore women, but that definitely doesn%rsquot mean I want to be one. I remember having a period with bad co-ordination and some crashing into furniture, some years ago. I have also experienced a clear energy distinction between the left and right halves of my body, but it was not as if they where to split apart, rather only as if they had very different energy qualities.

: Are you sure you wanna envy me?

: Yesterday I had a strange feeling in my "wiener". It was like it was getting split. It felt like it was becoming into an Yoni. Paris wrote that he felt his chest growing breats. Now I understand what he meant.

: Now, luckily, the Yoni feeling is over, I like my "wiener". Today I feel like the body is splitting into two halves. Or maybe it's energy running upwards from the root chakra.

: Also, I have no control over my limbs, I keep crashing into furniture. No co-ordination. It's like going through puberty all over again.

: After all, it's fun. I feel like someone is playing tricks on me.

: Edward

[juergen]

Wow this was a really good one!

I knew before some weeks that it would happen soon, especially in conjunction with body orgasms, don't ask me why!

You appear so serious about the course, there's something contagious about you!

I think that (hetero-)sex has always a dirty component, like Carl Jung has stated, but the Divine Component seems to (over-)compensate for it(reminds me of food and the eucharist-pheno); and then the DB isn't fleshy at all!

I remember as a kid of 4 or 5 years i had body orgasms first; in the warehouse, crawling on the floor, enthralled at the sight of some delicious seller-girls; unfortunately none abducted me.

I'm glad with you!

juergen.

:
: I am so happy right now!

: Last night, while I was listening to a long grounding excercise
: recorded on a CD, I totally let go.

: Suddenly I had a vision of a female character sitting on my lap. I was holding around her with my arms. Then I physically felt that she was lying over me, I could feel her lips touch mine! So real, so strange, so beautiful! Such a sensual experience! I had no erection, but my whole body was filled with energetic orgasms. Tears were running from eyes like a flowing river. It is the most powerful and celestial experience!

: I didn't know that it could be so real, so physical!

: And I have no feelings of being dirty. I'm gay, and I usually feel dirty about the idea of something "intimate" with a lady. But it
: was not like this now, it was a respectful and beautiful connection.

:
: Wheeeeee!

:
: Edward

[juergen]

To me it seems quite logic that any sane person cannot find basic bliss in doing karma sessions permanantly, endlessly; this Your work reminds me of a documentation about forensic doctors: they were 2 gorgeous young women and one sympathic male; i was impressed and astonished: they presented themselves in a nifty way, good-humored, very tough people. It seemed right for them at that time; but doing this for a whole lifetime - i wish it to no-one.

If this has been a transient period for You, You must have made experiences, which i even cannot dream of, and am in total awe before You.

But like Kitty, i was also in a worry about You, and feel relieved by your post, since you seem to draw the right conclusion; we all understand what you mean by pushing it, and that the line of sane and insane here is sometimes hard to discern.

Now You can also relax and leave some healing-work for the rest of the world!

I'm shure, by Your experience, if you change focus more to the writer and teacher(and what else may ever be in store!...) You will can effect and move even much more than hitherto, based on 'hitherto' You really appear well equipped to do so.

feeling so turned on by You to seek growth, i wish You the further real big mother cat growth which You deserve!

much love,

juergen.

:   I am so happy for you! Your post brings happy beauty tears to my eyes too.  

:    I have been a little at odds with my work lately.  I did my annual ego death ritual in Sept and my newly reborn self is a little dis-satisfied with my inheritance... I am so burnt out on doing sessions, I am going to quit... my body just doesn't want to take on karma from people anymore...  but the writing and the teaching still gives me joy... and when people meet their Divine Beloved it is the most beautiful of all.

:   Blessings...

: :
: : I am so happy right now!

: : Last night, while I was listening to a long grounding excercise
: : recorded on a CD, I totally let go.

: : Suddenly I had a vision of a female character sitting on my lap. I was holding around her with my arms. Then I physically felt that she was lying over me, I could feel her lips touch mine! So real, so strange, so beautiful! Such a sensual experience! I had no erection, but my whole body was filled with energetic orgasms. Tears were running from eyes like a flowing river. It is the most powerful and celestial experience!

: : I didn't know that it could be so real, so physical!

: : And I have no feelings of being dirty. I'm gay, and I usually feel dirty about the idea of something "intimate" with a lady. But it
: : was not like this now, it was a respectful and beautiful connection.

:
: :
: : Wheeeeee!

: :
: : Edward

[Mystress]

: Not to hijack your beautiful post/experience Edward...reading Mystress' response made me remember a dream I had awhile back.  Mystress, you had closed down FST to all but five students, and after that you were planning on discontinuing. It was so bizarre...I'm glad it was just a dream, and a bad one at that

Heh, there are days I have been tempted! It is not up to me, FST belongs to Goddess.

I think your dream is really about the folly of becoming dependent on me, instead of Goddess within yourself.

 If I were to shut down, I would simply stop accepting new students and let the other memberships expire... but in fact quite the opposite.  I am part way through a major update of the course, I have been working on it with volunteers for more than a year, though not much lately because my back injury makes it hard to sit at a desk for very long. The stuff that is coming through in the update amazes me. Six years of tea room archives has really helped me to refine the information presented, and add quite a lot to it.  There are some very cool homework assignments with every lesson, now... several new lessons, and some have been rewritten almost from scratch to be clearer and to represent my  changed perspectives.    

 The price is going to go up a lot when the new version goes live, but old members will still be able to renew at the old rate.  

 I give the course up to Goddess every year: my attitude that it belongs to Her is part of a sort of energy intention that means the karma that is brought up by the Shaktipat of the lessons goes to Goddess directly.  I don't think it works 100%, which has at times made me reluctant to promote the course more widely...  but it does mean that working with FST students is much easier on me than working with strangers. I definitely notice a difference, but it may be partly that y'all trust me more and resist me less.  

I haven't taken my appointments page down yet, but I have switched off the light on the astral billboard and people are thinking I am unavalible until next july. I cannot retire completely, all at once... bills to pay, and I have a Shamanic imperative to do a certain amount of energy work with people every month or my own energy gets bent out of shape.
 

: I am sorry to hear about your burn out and experiences recently. I am glad you will continue to teach and write. I would think the type of help you provide would require you to take lots of breaks to take care of yourself.

 When I started I would take one week off per month, or so... 3-7 sessions per week,  but these days it is more the opposite. I take three weeks off, and I am good for a few sessions before I want another three weeks. It is not just sessions... a decade of 18 hour days at this desk has taken a toll on my body. I turned 43 last week, body is not so resilient as it once was.

  Thanks for your support. Bless!

: You can't help anybody without helping yourself first.

: Take care  

[edward]

Juergen,

I think that sex in general has a dirty component. That's one of the reasons for why I've nearly practiced celibacy the last two years. However, when I was doing the Sacredness of Sexuality lesson I had to revise many of my negative beliefs about sex. And when a new lover (this was a real human) manifested in my life the week after finishing the lesson I knew it was a gift from Goddess for me to gain insights.

When I had sex with this person I actively had a focus on that I was making love with a Creature of Goddess. This added the Divine Component, and after the little love-affair, I didn%rsquot feel dirty, cynical or de-centered afterwards (as I usually felt before).

It's very fulfilling to read your (and Mystress and the other students) responses and insights as the knowledge you have and way you represent makes it easy for me to integrate and experience on my own.

Edward

: Wow this was a really good one!

: I knew before some weeks that it would happen soon, especially in conjunction with body orgasms, don't ask me why!

: You appear so serious about the course, there's something contagious about you!

: I think that (hetero-)sex has always a dirty component, like Carl Jung has stated, but the Divine Component seems to (over-)compensate for it(reminds me of food and the eucharist-pheno); and then the DB isn't fleshy at all!

: I remember as a kid of 4 or 5 years i had body orgasms first; in the warehouse, crawling on the floor, enthralled at the sight of some delicious seller-girls; unfortunately none abducted me.

: I'm glad with you!

: juergen.

[Mystress]

Why do you feel sex is dirty?

: I think that (hetero-)sex has always a dirty component, like Carl Jung has stated, but the Divine Component seems to (over-)compensate for it(reminds me of food and the eucharist-pheno); and then the DB isn't fleshy at all!

[juergen]

Hmm, i will just type as thoughts come in:

1. washing: following the common habit of washing afterwards, washing suggestive of dirtiness

2. thinking/worry: of consequences a)contraception/the pill ~ health-risks for partner(fem),ugly condomes; b)non-contraception ~ birth-risks; c)venereal diseases

3. location: primary sexual organs situated near defecation,urination organs, also see 1. washing; ok this one is more commonplace, not so much my piece of cake

4. Nakedness/illness; what may otherwise be hidden under clothing, becomes revealed. Bodily flaws, own as well as partner. For example, varices, rash, hydroceles, and and and

5. disagreeable child-experience, abuse; once it happened, that a young adult guy, when 7 or so, "persuaded" me to wank his dick; once he abused my younger sister in my presence, she cried so he was busted(without a consequence for him), it remained a feeling of vague uncertainty, insecurity

6. in ground-school, the class-teacher once made a speech about sinful things by dropping veiled hints, so that it was up to each of the class to construct our own guilt and feel dirty.(She was a bit fanatic, 'cause she had turned from protestantism to catholicism; half of the time she was absent because of illness(about age 30); i liked her).

7. prostitution(social stigma); a relict having some influence on me although i think i'm liberal that way; horrid porn movies on the mind(abuse degradation of sex)

8. Gangsta-flair/underworld; pimping, trafficking see also (7. prostitution)

9. Other complications; possible trouble with related people, jealousy; subsequent involvement of other people, sex as an (undesireble)social event

10. Iudicial aspects/anti-liberal restrictions; for example an affair of a 15-year guy with a 30 year old woman would amount to a threesome with the prosecuting attorney in some ways. Feeding sort of a "downburn". Spoiling effects

11. vagueness/ambiguity of sex; e.g. Bill and Monica: was it sex or not? am not 100% shure if Bill was lying.
vagueness in public propagation of sex. Vagueness gives sex an uncertaining character; like if s.o. is prodded in an interrogation, just to sing. Slipperiness.
Indeed vagueness,slipperiness seems to be a corner ingredient of social stigmatization;

12. perv sex/transgressive sex; related with (11.)  i realize(not for the 1st time), that conformism has a strong hold on me here; not so much in thinking but in acting; ok, in thinking too. Uncertainty with spoiling effect;

13. Media-spread rumors originating from so-called psychologists about abusive predispositions of the "abused". Spoiling effect

14. poor sex; sex is naturally about a positive access to life, which is in reality difficult to adapt. Sort of frustration. A feeling that sex is sacred, and want not to abuse sex!(smile). Forget it rather than violate it.

15. vaginal fluids can be biting/itching; menstrual blood, smelly; bleeding vagina if sensitive

16. sex as source of quarrel,discord with wife(is quarrel dirt? i think yes)

17. national socialism; don't want to supply offspring to national socialism or one of its variations, so sex feels also dirty. Spoiling effect

18. Disgust of my own parents results also in disgust of sex

19. Disgust of myself

20. Knowing that i principally won't do it in order to make offspring, gives it a distancing note

Well these aspects may not all pertain really to dirtiness, some describe rather reasons for abstinence or inhibition, but bounds are fluent.

If i look around i'm not alone with this situation; the world has come so much down to the ground and with it sex; or maybe it's not, that it has come down, but it is, that it hasn't come high.

Lately sex changes its entire meaning for me; by sexual relations i understand the whole dynamics between people, with special awareness of their respective gender. Motivated by my craving for agreeable structures among people; particularly under the aspect of pleasing women without (too much)coition, plumbing possibilities of fruitful communication, plumbing for the place of men at the side of women, for new symmetries, up to date.
Sex has even a wider scope for me now, than sexual relations have; it contains everything of fun, like music, beautiful visions, watching my self, doing work, doing this course... .

Your direct question was felt to hit me square central;

Thank You for it!

juergen.

: Why do you feel sex is dirty?

: : I think that (hetero-)sex has always a dirty component, like Carl Jung has stated, but the Divine Component seems to (over-)compensate for it(reminds me of food and the eucharist-pheno); and then the DB isn't fleshy at all!

[juergen]

Hello Edward,, my answers in blockquote:

I think that sex in general has a dirty component.

Glad i'm not alone; i'm just coming from writing a long report about 'why', see my other post.

That's one of the reasons for why I've nearly practiced celibacy the last two years.

Ironside!

And when a new lover (this was a real human) manifested in my life the week after finishing the lesson I knew it was a gift from Goddess for me to gain insights.

Great! - So You have become extra-magnetic

When I had sex with this person I actively had a focus on that I was making love with a Creature of Goddess. This added the Divine Component, and after the little love-affair, I didn%rsquot feel dirty, cynical or de-centered afterwards (as I usually felt before).

This lesson had a great impression on me too, and afterwards, i have seen people with other eyes, more respect, as someones more valuable; even life more valueble. In the movie Avalon was such a scene of pagan lovemaking, anonymously(Morgaine slept with her own brother, tsk tsk).
In North-Scotland i have heard, a little tribe has grown plants with these rituals, where it is usually impossible. The Celts !
I had no opportunity to make the test with "a little love-affair"(am rather a fantasizer of big love-affairs), but i take from Your story, that Mystress is right, that "You cannot change anybody but yourself... but within you is the whole world."  How wonderful!
Your magick attracted the right guy and made you also right and it went fine without regrets!

It's very fulfilling to read your (and Mystress and the other students) responses and insights as the knowledge you have and way you represent makes it easy for me to integrate and experience on my own.

You embarras me, Edward; i'm learning through you no less than the other way; the exciting thing is, we are different people, and in some ways we are one, so this is fun;

See You!

juergen.

: Juergen,

: I think that sex in general has a dirty component. That's one of the reasons for why I've nearly practiced celibacy the last two years. However, when I was doing the Sacredness of Sexuality lesson I had to revise many of my negative beliefs about sex. And when a new lover (this was a real human) manifested in my life the week after finishing the lesson I knew it was a gift from Goddess for me to gain insights.

: When I had sex with this person I actively had a focus on that I was making love with a Creature of Goddess. This added the Divine Component, and after the little love-affair, I didn%rsquot feel dirty, cynical or de-centered afterwards (as I usually felt before).

: It's very fulfilling to read your (and Mystress and the other students) responses and insights as the knowledge you have and way you represent makes it easy for me to integrate and experience on my own.

:
: Edward

:
: : Wow this was a really good one!

: : I knew before some weeks that it would happen soon, especially in conjunction with body orgasms, don't ask me why!

: : You appear so serious about the course, there's something contagious about you!

: : I think that (hetero-)sex has always a dirty component, like Carl Jung has stated, but the Divine Component seems to (over-)compensate for it(reminds me of food and the eucharist-pheno); and then the DB isn't fleshy at all!

: : I remember as a kid of 4 or 5 years i had body orgasms first; in the warehouse, crawling on the floor, enthralled at the sight of some delicious seller-girls; unfortunately none abducted me.

: : I'm glad with you!

: : juergen.

[Vyana]

Wow, thats a lot! However, for me one is enough: Sex is wounderful!

: Hmm, i will just type as thoughts come in:

: 1. washing: following the common habit of washing afterwards, washing suggestive of dirtiness

: 2. thinking/worry: of consequences a)contraception/the pill ~ health-risks for partner(fem),ugly condomes; b)non-contraception ~ birth-risks; c)venereal diseases

: 3. location: primary sexual organs situated near defecation,urination organs, also see 1. washing; ok this one is more commonplace, not so much my piece of cake

: 4. Nakedness/illness; what may otherwise be hidden under clothing, becomes revealed. Bodily flaws, own as well as partner. For example, varices, rash, hydroceles, and and and

: 5. disagreeable child-experience, abuse; once it happened, that a young adult guy, when 7 or so, "persuaded" me to wank his dick; once he abused my younger sister in my presence, she cried so he was busted(without a consequence for him), it remained a feeling of vague uncertainty, insecurity

: 6. in ground-school, the class-teacher once made a speech about sinful things by dropping veiled hints, so that it was up to each of the class to construct our own guilt and feel dirty.(She was a bit fanatic, 'cause she had turned from protestantism to catholicism; half of the time she was absent because of illness(about age 30); i liked her).

:
: 7. prostitution(social stigma); a relict having some influence on me although i think i'm liberal that way; horrid porn movies on the mind(abuse degradation of sex)

: 8. Gangsta-flair/underworld; pimping, trafficking see also (7. prostitution)

: 9. Other complications; possible trouble with related people, jealousy; subsequent involvement of other people, sex as an (undesireble)social event

: 10. Iudicial aspects/anti-liberal restrictions; for example an affair of a 15-year guy with a 30 year old woman would amount to a threesome with the prosecuting attorney in some ways. Feeding sort of a "downburn". Spoiling effects

: 11. vagueness/ambiguity of sex; e.g. Bill and Monica: was it sex or not? am not 100% shure if Bill was lying.
: vagueness in public propagation of sex. Vagueness gives sex an uncertaining character; like if s.o. is prodded in an interrogation, just to sing. Slipperiness.
: Indeed vagueness,slipperiness seems to be a corner ingredient of social stigmatization;

: 12. perv sex/transgressive sex; related with (11.)  i realize(not for the 1st time), that conformism has a strong hold on me here; not so much in thinking but in acting; ok, in thinking too. Uncertainty with spoiling effect;

: 13. Media-spread rumors originating from so-called psychologists about abusive predispositions of the "abused". Spoiling effect

: 14. poor sex; sex is naturally about a positive access to life, which is in reality difficult to adapt. Sort of frustration. A feeling that sex is sacred, and want not to abuse sex!(smile). Forget it rather than violate it.

: 15. vaginal fluids can be biting/itching; menstrual blood, smelly; bleeding vagina if sensitive

: 16. sex as source of quarrel,discord with wife(is quarrel dirt? i think yes)

: 17. national socialism; don't want to supply offspring to national socialism or one of its variations, so sex feels also dirty. Spoiling effect

: 18. Disgust of my own parents results also in disgust of sex

: 19. Disgust of myself

: 20. Knowing that i principally won't do it in order to make offspring, gives it a distancing note

: Well these aspects may not all pertain really to dirtiness, some describe rather reasons for abstinence or inhibition, but bounds are fluent.

: If i look around i'm not alone with this situation; the world has come so much down to the ground and with it sex; or maybe it's not, that it has come down, but it is, that it hasn't come high.

: Lately sex changes its entire meaning for me; by sexual relations i understand the whole dynamics between people, with special awareness of their respective gender. Motivated by my craving for agreeable structures among people; particularly under the aspect of pleasing women without (too much)coition, plumbing possibilities of fruitful communication, plumbing for the place of men at the side of women, for new symmetries, up to date.
: Sex has even a wider scope for me now, than sexual relations have; it contains everything of fun, like music, beautiful visions, watching my self, doing work, doing this course... .

: Your direct question was felt to hit me square central;

: Thank You for it!

:
: juergen.

: : Why do you feel sex is dirty?

: : : I think that (hetero-)sex has always a dirty component, like Carl Jung has stated, but the Divine Component seems to (over-)compensate for it(reminds me of food and the eucharist-pheno); and then the DB isn't fleshy at all!

[juergen]

: Wow, thats a lot! However, for me one is enough: Sex is wounderful!

That's exactly, what i was trying to say. Only not in so simple words! tsk tsk;

cheers,
juergen.

: : Hmm, i will just type as thoughts come in:

: : 1. washing: following the common habit of washing afterwards, washing suggestive of dirtiness

: : 2. thinking/worry: of consequences a)contraception/the pill ~ health-risks for partner(fem),ugly condomes; b)non-contraception ~ birth-risks; c)venereal diseases

: : 3. location: primary sexual organs situated near defecation,urination organs, also see 1. washing; ok this one is more commonplace, not so much my piece of cake

: : 4. Nakedness/illness; what may otherwise be hidden under clothing, becomes revealed. Bodily flaws, own as well as partner. For example, varices, rash, hydroceles, and and and

: : 5. disagreeable child-experience, abuse; once it happened, that a young adult guy, when 7 or so, "persuaded" me to wank his dick; once he abused my younger sister in my presence, she cried so he was busted(without a consequence for him), it remained a feeling of vague uncertainty, insecurity

: : 6. in ground-school, the class-teacher once made a speech about sinful things by dropping veiled hints, so that it was up to each of the class to construct our own guilt and feel dirty.(She was a bit fanatic, 'cause she had turned from protestantism to catholicism; half of the time she was absent because of illness(about age 30); i liked her).

: :
: : 7. prostitution(social stigma); a relict having some influence on me although i think i'm liberal that way; horrid porn movies on the mind(abuse degradation of sex)

: : 8. Gangsta-flair/underworld; pimping, trafficking see also (7. prostitution)

: : 9. Other complications; possible trouble with related people, jealousy; subsequent involvement of other people, sex as an (undesireble)social event

: : 10. Iudicial aspects/anti-liberal restrictions; for example an affair of a 15-year guy with a 30 year old woman would amount to a threesome with the prosecuting attorney in some ways. Feeding sort of a "downburn". Spoiling effects

: : 11. vagueness/ambiguity of sex; e.g. Bill and Monica: was it sex or not? am not 100% shure if Bill was lying.
: : vagueness in public propagation of sex. Vagueness gives sex an uncertaining character; like if s.o. is prodded in an interrogation, just to sing. Slipperiness.
: : Indeed vagueness,slipperiness seems to be a corner ingredient of social stigmatization;

: : 12. perv sex/transgressive sex; related with (11.)  i realize(not for the 1st time), that conformism has a strong hold on me here; not so much in thinking but in acting; ok, in thinking too. Uncertainty with spoiling effect;

: : 13. Media-spread rumors originating from so-called psychologists about abusive predispositions of the "abused". Spoiling effect

: : 14. poor sex; sex is naturally about a positive access to life, which is in reality difficult to adapt. Sort of frustration. A feeling that sex is sacred, and want not to abuse sex!(smile). Forget it rather than violate it.

: : 15. vaginal fluids can be biting/itching; menstrual blood, smelly; bleeding vagina if sensitive

: : 16. sex as source of quarrel,discord with wife(is quarrel dirt? i think yes)

: : 17. national socialism; don't want to supply offspring to national socialism or one of its variations, so sex feels also dirty. Spoiling effect

: : 18. Disgust of my own parents results also in disgust of sex

: : 19. Disgust of myself

: : 20. Knowing that i principally won't do it in order to make offspring, gives it a distancing note

: : Well these aspects may not all pertain really to dirtiness, some describe rather reasons for abstinence or inhibition, but bounds are fluent.

: : If i look around i'm not alone with this situation; the world has come so much down to the ground and with it sex; or maybe it's not, that it has come down, but it is, that it hasn't come high.

: : Lately sex changes its entire meaning for me; by sexual relations i understand the whole dynamics between people, with special awareness of their respective gender. Motivated by my craving for agreeable structures among people; particularly under the aspect of pleasing women without (too much)coition, plumbing possibilities of fruitful communication, plumbing for the place of men at the side of women, for new symmetries, up to date.
: : Sex has even a wider scope for me now, than sexual relations have; it contains everything of fun, like music, beautiful visions, watching my self, doing work, doing this course... .

: : Your direct question was felt to hit me square central;

: : Thank You for it!

: :
: : juergen.

: : : Why do you feel sex is dirty?

: : : : I think that (hetero-)sex has always a dirty component, like Carl Jung has stated, but the Divine Component seems to (over-)compensate for it(reminds me of food and the eucharist-pheno); and then the DB isn't fleshy at all!