Still wrestling with depression

[Vyana]

Since mid August I have been depressed %ndash or at least realized that I am %ndash and trying to find a way out. The last month or so there has also come up anger, which might be logical as depression is often said to be anger turned inward, and the last week or so also grief, which might also be logical as there is often said to be grief at the bottom of anger.

I am kind of locked up in a victim-hood situation too. This is kind of strange, because in some way it%rsquos just not my stile. I use to concentrate on getting things done and focus on what can be achieved and just go around (or over or under or, if necessary, right through) the obstacles as fast as possible. Still, it seems to be the kundalini that forced me to kind of stop and face all this mess, not physically created by me but still kind of related to my power chakra issues. So I suppose I have suppressed a few things in my life.

It%rsquos not as if I do not get things done today. I am still rather effective. But most of it is based on habit and I don%rsquot have the right feeling. I want to get out of this depression, decide on the direction of my life and start living it more fully! For instance I have a set of new ideas requiring a change in my career. But the depression is somehow an obstacle to that. I need to feel better to be able to accomplish what I am after. Than I have to make I choice, I have difficulties getting myself to that.  

I sometimes seek the guidance form my heart chakra, but it does not seem to be interested in my problems. It just says: %ldquoYes! I am here and everything is just fine!%rdquo

It is funny though, how a lot of what I read here and from the K-list seems to relate to my situation. It appears as if Mystress has had to deal with a lot of people with problems similar to mine these last months.

In my meditation, I am focusing on my power chakra. Mystress advised me to meditate on my heart and power chakras, but I feel the heart is already awake to a greater extent and my problems seems to be typical power chakra issues, so I focus most of the time on that. Still I start and finish going through all the chakras as is described in the chakra meditation at the kundalini-teacher site.

I have also recently started practicing qi gong, as Mystress advised me to this summer. These seemingly small movements are really somewhat more demanding and effective than I thought they would be! So, it%rsquos more of physical exercise than I expected. It%rsquos also a lot of energy work. I practice this once a day, most days, and most often half an hour before my meditation, which is in the early morning.

In qi gong there are three levels:
(1) you clean your body to make it strong enough to take in all the qi,
(2) you awaken the strong energy,
(3) you work with the energy in relation to your upcoming issues.
I am practicing qi gong at level one. To me it seems as if I have been wrestling with the third level almost all my life. I have also been to level 2 in my yoga practices. But I never really got to level one, and that might be a great part of the explanation to my problems.

Now I have a few questions:

1. Would I be better off doing a lot of physical exercises? I know that normally makes me feel better. Still I doubt it would help in relation to my depression. And I also feel as if the endorphins produced by the body work in a similar way as SSRI medicine, to block what is coming up from the subconscious. Is that right? Or am I just trying to find excuses to be lazy?

2. Dealing with the shadow, there is something I don%rsquot really understand. That is the principle that I am what I think I am not and that all I see is myself reflected. I can understand that in the sense that I am Goddes, I am all that is and even for instance people whose behaviour I don%rsquot appreciate. I can understand and relate to that.

But often, this idea seems to be transformed to relate the individual self in duality instead. But if it is transformed that way, it starts to mean something different. It would mean that I %ndash this individual person %ndash have exactly those traits of character etc which I don%rsquot appreciate when I perceive them in others. Is that right? Is it true that everything I perceive is me %ndash this individual person %ndash reflected? And if so, what does that mean? Do I really expose those (or similar) behaviours in some way, but block the awareness of this to my conscious? Or is it that I have, in my subconscious, desires to act that way, which I block away? Or is it just that I have issues relating to for instance behaviour I perceive exposed by others (for instance issues of being a victim to such behaviours)?

3. When I practiced kriya yoga techniques in 2003, I was breathing energy up and down in my spine. This exercise rather soon got extremely effective for me. I felt as being in heaven for a few weeks (I have had similar experiences before, but not for such a long period of time). Than it all changed and I experienced a few months of extremely intense energy movements in my whole body. When this was at its worse, I had cramps in my whole body and was hardly able to stand on my feet. Than it stopped and I started to feel rather good. But still, my spine has been kind of hypersensitive ever since then. For several months I hardly dared to go there with my awareness, as it started strong energy movements. Very slowly it has turned less sensible. But even to day I cannot do those kriya yoga exercises in the spine. If I just go with my awareness up and down in the spine once or twice, I get overwhelmed. Mystress also perceived something odd with my spine at our last session. How should I relate to this?

[Scott E]

Maybe this sounds masochistic, but I have sort of started to enjoy the times when I was in a time of depression. Lots of surrender.

Scott

: Since mid August I have been depressed %ndash or at least realized that I am %ndash and trying to find a way out. The last month or so there has also come up anger, which might be logical as depression is often said to be anger turned inward, and the last week or so also grief, which might also be logical as there is often said to be grief at the bottom of anger.

: I am kind of locked up in a victim-hood situation too. This is kind of strange, because in some way it%rsquos just not my stile. I use to concentrate on getting things done and focus on what can be achieved and just go around (or over or under or, if necessary, right through) the obstacles as fast as possible. Still, it seems to be the kundalini that forced me to kind of stop and face all this mess, not physically created by me but still kind of related to my power chakra issues. So I suppose I have suppressed a few things in my life.

: It%rsquos not as if I do not get things done today. I am still rather effective. But most of it is based on habit and I don%rsquot have the right feeling. I want to get out of this depression, decide on the direction of my life and start living it more fully! For instance I have a set of new ideas requiring a change in my career. But the depression is somehow an obstacle to that. I need to feel better to be able to accomplish what I am after. Than I have to make I choice, I have difficulties getting myself to that.  

: I sometimes seek the guidance form my heart chakra, but it does not seem to be interested in my problems. It just says: %ldquoYes! I am here and everything is just fine!%rdquo

: It is funny though, how a lot of what I read here and from the K-list seems to relate to my situation. It appears as if Mystress has had to deal with a lot of people with problems similar to mine these last months.

: In my meditation, I am focusing on my power chakra. Mystress advised me to meditate on my heart and power chakras, but I feel the heart is already awake to a greater extent and my problems seems to be typical power chakra issues, so I focus most of the time on that. Still I start and finish going through all the chakras as is described in the chakra meditation at the kundalini-teacher site.

: I have also recently started practicing qi gong, as Mystress advised me to this summer. These seemingly small movements are really somewhat more demanding and effective than I thought they would be! So, it%rsquos more of physical exercise than I expected. It%rsquos also a lot of energy work. I practice this once a day, most days, and most often half an hour before my meditation, which is in the early morning.

: In qi gong there are three levels:
: (1) you clean your body to make it strong enough to take in all the qi,
: (2) you awaken the strong energy,
: (3) you work with the energy in relation to your upcoming issues.
: I am practicing qi gong at level one. To me it seems as if I have been wrestling with the third level almost all my life. I have also been to level 2 in my yoga practices. But I never really got to level one, and that might be a great part of the explanation to my problems.

: Now I have a few questions:

: 1. Would I be better off doing a lot of physical exercises? I know that normally makes me feel better. Still I doubt it would help in relation to my depression. And I also feel as if the endorphins produced by the body work in a similar way as SSRI medicine, to block what is coming up from the subconscious. Is that right? Or am I just trying to find excuses to be lazy?

: 2. Dealing with the shadow, there is something I don%rsquot really understand. That is the principle that I am what I think I am not and that all I see is myself reflected. I can understand that in the sense that I am Goddes, I am all that is and even for instance people whose behaviour I don%rsquot appreciate. I can understand and relate to that.

: But often, this idea seems to be transformed to relate the individual self in duality instead. But if it is transformed that way, it starts to mean something different. It would mean that I %ndash this individual person %ndash have exactly those traits of character etc which I don%rsquot appreciate when I perceive them in others. Is that right? Is it true that everything I perceive is me %ndash this individual person %ndash reflected? And if so, what does that mean? Do I really expose those (or similar) behaviours in some way, but block the awareness of this to my conscious? Or is it that I have, in my subconscious, desires to act that way, which I block away? Or is it just that I have issues relating to for instance behaviour I perceive exposed by others (for instance issues of being a victim to such behaviours)?

: 3. When I practiced kriya yoga techniques in 2003, I was breathing energy up and down in my spine. This exercise rather soon got extremely effective for me. I felt as being in heaven for a few weeks (I have had similar experiences before, but not for such a long period of time). Than it all changed and I experienced a few months of extremely intense energy movements in my whole body. When this was at its worse, I had cramps in my whole body and was hardly able to stand on my feet. Than it stopped and I started to feel rather good. But still, my spine has been kind of hypersensitive ever since then. For several months I hardly dared to go there with my awareness, as it started strong energy movements. Very slowly it has turned less sensible. But even to day I cannot do those kriya yoga exercises in the spine. If I just go with my awareness up and down in the spine once or twice, I get overwhelmed. Mystress also perceived something odd with my spine at our last session. How should I relate to this?

[Vyana]

Well, I certainly don%rsquot enjoy it, but I still see your point. When cleaning out stuff we are not so balanced and don%rsquot feel so well. To me it seams there are two ways of living with yoga and other similar techniques. I am reading book written by the qigong master who constructed the so-called biyun method of medical qigong I am practicing. She claims the practice has made her more calm, harmonic and non-detached. Other people claim the same thing when it comes to yoga and meditation. Still, when it comes to the kundalini-yogis, my impression is there is a considerable amount of suffering involved. Sometimes I believe that is because we clean out a lot of karmic stuff that fast and that those who claim they feel good all the time dont. But sometimes I start to wonder if we don%rsquot just choose our own reality in every second and if my NLP teacher might be right; we could just choose to forget about all this torment and be happy all the time %ndash and the karmic load would just disappear in a second. I would certainly like to do that!

: Maybe this sounds masochistic, but I have sort of started to enjoy the times when I was in a time of depression. Lots of surrender.

: Scott

[Mystress]

Hello, Vyana:

: Since mid August I have been depressed %ndash or at least realized that I am %ndash and trying to find a way out. The last month or so there has also come up anger, which might be logical as depression is often said to be anger turned inward, and the last week or so also grief, which might also be logical as there is often said to be grief at the bottom of anger.

yes. Practice unconditional gratitude. Thank Goddess for everything you love and everything you don't. Thank her for the anger and the depression and the grief and the joy and the love...

This will feed the power chakra, and also get you past whatever resistance is kicking your butt.  

: I am kind of locked up in a victim-hood situation too. This is kind of strange, because in some way it%rsquos just not my stile. I use to concentrate on getting things done and focus on what can be achieved and just go around (or over or under or, if necessary, right through) the obstacles as fast as possible. Still, it seems to be the kundalini that forced me to kind of stop and face all this mess, not physically created by me but still kind of related to my power chakra issues. So I suppose I have suppressed a few things in my life.

: It%rsquos not as if I do not get things done today. I am still rather effective. But most of it is based on habit and I don%rsquot have the right feeling. I want to get out of this depression, decide on the direction of my life and start living it more fully! For instance I have a set of new ideas requiring a change in my career. But the depression is somehow an obstacle to that. I need to feel better to be able to accomplish what I am after. Than I have to make I choice, I have difficulties getting myself to that.  

Could be that your choice of new career is not in alignment with your soul path. If it were really right, inspiration and synchronicity would carry you in joy and passion, even if you are working hard.

: I sometimes seek the guidance form my heart chakra, but it does not seem to be interested in my problems. It just says: %ldquoYes! I am here and everything is just fine!%rdquo

So why don't you believe it? Change the world by changing inside yourself, and attitude is the first key!

: It is funny though, how a lot of what I read here and from the K-list seems to relate to my situation. It appears as if Mystress has had to deal with a lot of people with problems similar to mine these last months.

eh, it is chronic. Part of the seeker pattern, illusion. I see Goddess in you all and you don't all see it in yourselves...

: In my meditation, I am focusing on my power chakra. Mystress advised me to meditate on my heart and power chakras, but I feel the heart is already awake to a greater extent and my problems seems to be typical power chakra issues, so I focus most of the time on that. Still I start and finish going through all the chakras as is described in the chakra meditation at the kundalini-teacher site.

: I have also recently started practicing qi gong, as Mystress advised me to this summer. These seemingly small movements are really somewhat more demanding and effective than I thought they would be! So, it%rsquos more of physical exercise than I expected. It%rsquos also a lot of energy work. I practice this once a day, most days, and most often half an hour before my meditation, which is in the early morning.

I do not recall telling you that, but I don't always remember what happens in sessions.

: In qi gong there are three levels:
: (1) you clean your body to make it strong enough to take in all the qi,
: (2) you awaken the strong energy,
: (3) you work with the energy in relation to your upcoming issues.
: I am practicing qi gong at level one. To me it seems as if I have been wrestling with the third level almost all my life. I have also been to level 2 in my yoga practices. But I never really got to level one, and that might be a great part of the explanation to my problems.

: Now I have a few questions:

: 1. Would I be better off doing a lot of physical exercises? I know that normally makes me feel better.

That is what the shrinks advise! Exercise and getting out more helps with depression. Quit moping and get out more!

:Still I doubt it would help in relation to my depression.

well, the hopeless attitude is part of the depression.

:And I also feel as if the endorphins produced by the body work in a similar way as SSRI medicine, to block what is coming up from the subconscious. Is that right?

They don't block it, they just make you less concerned about it. Don't sweat the small stuff... and it is all small stuff!

:Or am I just trying to find excuses to be lazy?

heh.  

: 2. Dealing with the shadow, there is something I don%rsquot really understand. That is the principle that I am what I think I am not and that all I see is myself reflected. I can understand that in the sense that I am Goddes, I am all that is and even for instance people whose behaviour I don%rsquot appreciate. I can understand and relate to that.

: But often, this idea seems to be transformed to relate the individual self in duality instead. But if it is transformed that way, it starts to mean something different. It would mean that I %ndash this individual person %ndash have exactly those traits of character etc which I don%rsquot appreciate when I perceive them in others. Is that right?

Yes. If it bugs you, it is yours.

:Is it true that everything I perceive is me %ndash this individual person %ndash reflected? And if so, what does that mean? Do I really expose those (or similar) behaviours in some way, but block the awareness of this to my conscious? Or is it that I have, in my subconscious, desires to act that way, which I block away? Or is it just that I have issues relating to for instance behaviour I perceive exposed by others (for instance issues of being a victim to such behaviours)?

Victim and abuser are two sides of the same coin.

: 3. When I practiced kriya yoga techniques in 2003, I was breathing energy up and down in my spine. This exercise rather soon got extremely effective for me. I felt as being in heaven for a few weeks (I have had similar experiences before, but not for such a long period of time). Than it all changed and I experienced a few months of extremely intense energy movements in my whole body. When this was at its worse, I had cramps in my whole body and was hardly able to stand on my feet. Than it stopped and I started to feel rather good. But still, my spine has been kind of hypersensitive ever since then. For several months I hardly dared to go there with my awareness, as it started strong energy movements. Very slowly it has turned less sensible. But even to day I cannot do those kriya yoga exercises in the spine. If I just go with my awareness up and down in the spine once or twice, I get overwhelmed. Mystress also perceived something odd with my spine at our last session. How should I relate to this?

If Goddess wanted you to do it, you could do it. A lot of the various yogas are for awakening Kundalini. Once awakened they decrease in usefulness, and persisting with them can be resistance, trying to control your Shakti. Shakti doesn't like to be controlled so you get your ass kicked some more.

 Blessings!  

[Vyana]

Thank you! I will as always do my best to follow your advises, which has always been very helpful before. I try to apply gratitude, and it is easy to do that in relation to my own unconscious, but less easy when it comes to other people whose behaviour I don%rsquot appreciate. I also try to work on my attitude, but that is a difficult analysis.

Still, a lot has happened since I posted these questions. You advised me to practice either qi gong or tai chi or something similar I cannot recall the name of (as far as I can recall the session correctly - it was really early in the morning) this summer when I had a really painful back problem. I started with qi gong about a month ago. Since then a lot has happened. It is as if the exercises make it easier for the energy to perceive my body. A lot of energy has been working in my upper chest and arms for several months, or maybe even for years. When the energy has got strong or there has been a minor break-through, I have got an inconvenient reassure in my chest, close to the diaphragm area, and excessive stomach acid.

A few weeks ago I focused on perceiving these stomach symptoms as an object %ndash something outside of me which did not necessarily have to go away. Then there was a break-through during my chakra meditation and a lot of energy ascended into my head. Since then my third eye chakra has kind of been directing a major energy work involving most parts of my body, but focusing on my head, my upper chest and arms, my lower belly and my lower back. All the other chakras seem to be involved in this too, although it differs from day to day which are the most active. Most active is the third eye chakra. It seems to communicate most frequently with the second chakra or the first chakra. The crown chakra seems to always be involved.

One week ago I experienced several hours at a high degree of awakening and felt very good. The day after, something happened, and a lot of very warm energy descended from my head to my upper chest. After this my stomach problems returned, worse than in several years. So, now I am not only struggling with depression, but with severe stomach problems too and maybe also with some muscular imbalances in my shoulders and chest. I guess there is a victim-related power chakra trauma at the bottom of this and that I will have to deal with that before I can proceed with my new career. But I don%rsquot really know how to accomplish that. Should I book a session for this or should I try Time Line therapy as my NLP teacher advocates?

[Gustaf]

: If Goddess wanted you to do it, you could do it. A lot of the various yogas are for awakening Kundalini. Once awakened they decrease in usefulness, and persisting with them can be resistance, trying to control your Shakti. Shakti doesn't like to be controlled so you get your ass kicked some more.

:   Blessings!

When looking at the life of many gurus, the yogas that they practiced and taught changed, due to their evolution, no doubt.

Swami Satyananda was a big promoter of hatha yoga and kriya yoga, but at one point he retired and pays no interest to them at all. It is all Bhakti (devotion)

I take it very easy with yoga practices these days, letting Goddess pick the pace and expression of them. Asanas haven't decreased in usefulness at all. The body loves a good stretch, some work with awareness of it!

Pranayamas are.. ehh.. Dropped all of them pretty much, brought me too much tension (even though they didn't in the past), too much control probably. I still do one pranayama, that's laying on my back with a hand on my navel, breathing deep into the abdomen, letting the body find a natural pace, and psychic breath, which doesn't require any force either. In fact my body performs psychic breath spontaneously with sleeping, resting or any meditation.

As far as kundalini yoga goes, it seems ever changing, sometimes a bit of work with chakras is warranted, and definitely moolbandh (contraction of perineum) Kriyas is a grey zone. Since I love yoga, I am giving it a shot at the moment, learning them one by one. I'll find out how that works out.

Most of the time though it's all about surrender in one form or the other. I did an experiment on myself with a kriya where awareness is moved in the microcosmic orbit. I asked beloved to do it for me. The pace and the feel of it became much different, much less control. As far as I understand, kriya yoga is also a system for awakening the Kundalini, so in the end its usefulness may be limited, too.  Then again, there are kriyas for grounding, for opening up certain areas and so forth, so they may turn out to be helpful.

Anyway, just some random sharing concerning yoga.

Namaste
Gustaf

[Scott]

I had a friend that continually struggled with depression. It took her 35 years until she finally had something trigger memories of sexual abuse when she was 4 years old. Those 35 years of keeping it inside her just about destroyed her mentally, emotionally and physically.

Depression is not only on the emotional level, but on the physical level as well, in that there are certain nutrients depression seems to suck out of us, which need to be supplemented. It is one vicious circle.

I'm not sure which ones they are off hand, but there are lots of good books on handling depression with nutrition.

I thought I would just add the above to hopefully help you in your healing journey.

Scott

[Vyana]

Thank you Scott and Gustaf!

The nutrition part I had always forgotten. I will buy some Mivitotal today, as it contains most of what the body needs. I am certainly thankful this has not been going on for 35 years (!), but only for about 3 ½ months.

I am practicing chakra meditation and when I go through the chakras, there is always a lot of energy work going on in different chakras, so hopefully there is an ongoing process which will eventually take me out of this depressed state. A lot of energy is working along my spine, at different places. And most of the time I have a lot of energy piercing my chest, shoulders and arms. I thing many of my karmas and attachments are at least physically related to this area. When I go through the chakras, I also meditate on the sushumna nadi in my spine. That is not a problem as long as I don%rsquot move prana up and down in the spine. I also practice nadi shoodana before meditation, which I feel is helpful and relaxing. But I don%rsquot dare to do the more physically active pranayamas, such as bhastrika, because the only make me dizzy and send me into an almost painful elevated state of consousness. The advanced kriya yoga, I never learned, as the ajapa japa technique where energy is sent up and down the spine turned my whole energy system upside down. But maybe I should do that later.

As for the physical exercise, I practice qui gong in principle every day. And I also try to do the power chakra related stomach exercises where you empty your stomach of air and inflate it.

Depression has not normally been my thing. I have always been back at my feet comparatively fast after bad things has happened. I have been taken tests for depression a few times earlier, but I did not even score close to what is defined as depression. However, I am not even sure I would today. I am presently working hard and living my normal life at the surface. Still, there is something missing, and I feel as have not found out what is the right way for me in life, and that makes me feel depressed.

The symptoms I have been struggling with now and then most of my life are chest problems, which are similar to those of a heart attack and other heart diseases but which are diagnosed as a result of heart burn caused by a functional disorder in the gastric tract (so, basically I have had extremely severe symptoms and have had emergency transports to the hospital several times whit the symptoms of an ongoing heart attach, but with no physical disorder at the bottom). These problems started when I was 12 or 13 years old, and I believe there is a trauma from that time at the bottom of them. But it might also be that they are the physical symptoms of the awakening of kundalini, which started at the same time. I have read somewhere that stomach problems are common symptoms of the kundalini process. However, they are also related to stress and there might also be some nervous problems involved. For instance, sometimes I cannot even speak because a lot of energy is kind of invading my chest, causing dizziness and cramps when I move the muscles in that area. And often I have similar problems, but not as severe, after eating. Isn%rsquot this strange?

I believe I have some kind of trauma %ndash probably mostly related to the power chakra %ndash at the bottom of my problems. My NLP teacher is trying to convince me to let someone practice the Time Line therapy to relieve me of that trauma. Still I have a strong ongoing process in my chakras, so I am a little bit concerned about interfering with this as I don%rsquot know how this would affect the energy movements in my body. Still, my chakras have been working hard with this for a considerable amount of times (actually several years), so I am considering if it might soon be appropriate to interfere with other methods. I am just waiting for Myestress answer to my question before I decide on what to do. Her advices tend to be the best choice.