The Matriarch

[Scott E]

The Matriarch in this course has an unconditional loving feminine Goddess.

This statement seems to contradict itself.

How can the Goddess be feminine, if it is unconditional? It is a condition it would seem.

Scott

[Vyana]

Are you sure these conclusions are really valid? To me, as a man, it%rsquos easier to think of an unconditional loving female than a man%hellip..  

No, isn%rsquot it like this. Goddess IS all that is and is thus above gender %ndash that means unlimited by it %ndash and we are free %ndash even on this course %ndash to perceive her as anything we like; male, female, genderless spirit or whatever. As she is all that is we cannot be wrong. She IS unconditional loving. We CHOOSE to perceive her as female. So that is no condition.

: The Matriarch in this course has an unconditional loving feminine Goddess.

: This statement seems to contradict itself.

: How can the Goddess be feminine, if it is unconditional? It is a condition it would seem.

: Scott

[Scott E]

I understand that we can call Goddess "Noodle", who has no gender, if we really wanted to.

Suppose I am not totally sure, thats why I asked . I don't think I came on to stir up a ruckus, this time.

I suppose it is just symbolism.

But if All that Is is the Mother Goddess, and is unconditionally loving, how can it be a Mother?
That would be conditioning her own existence.

The condition of the Matriarch is that it is a Matriarch. So can we have any system that is truly unconditional?

Scott

: Are you sure these conclusions are really valid? To me, as a man, it%rsquos easier to think of an unconditional loving female than a man%hellip..  

[Mystress]

: I understand that we can call Goddess "Noodle", who has no gender, if we really wanted to.

Yup! Like the creation myth of the giant invisible spaghetti monster. Link below. Type "Spaghetti monster" into google and get 77,800 more. Pastafarianism is big!

: Suppose I am not totally sure, thats why I asked . I don't think I came on to stir up a ruckus, this time.

: I suppose it is just symbolism.

Nope it is a head game, and it is functional, it has purpose.

 The majority of world religions, the top 3 of Christianity, Judeaism and Muslim are conditional- patriarchal, with an angry remote Father God who smites people. It shapes our thinking, and so consciously switching to a feminine concept of diety both sidesteps the fear and resistance to the cranky fathergod, *and* brings the karma of the cultural patriarchal beliefs to the surface to be realized and surrendered. Triggers the patriarchy issues and the sexist issues so you can let them go.

 Gustaf wrote a nice post awhile back of how the process brought forth a lot of sexist ideas he did not know he had, because we rarely question the contents of the cultural sea until we are in a different culture and have a comparison and a new frame of reference.

It is a growth process, it gives balance to get to an unconditional place. A Zen of exploring opposites and contradictions to locate where is the middle path.

It is also sort of traditional, Kundalini Shakti is the name of a Hindu Goddess, and working with that archetype invokes its support from the collective... though that name is not the only doorway.
There are idols of Kali-ma who look identical to the icons of the Virgin Mary, except for the racial features, the shape of lips, nose and eyes. Both are white skinned and wear a white gown with a blue cloth mantle draped over the head, stand on a snake and have one hand raised in blessing... except Kali is about a millennium older.  

: But if All that Is is the Mother Goddess, and is unconditionally loving, how can it be a Mother?
: That would be conditioning her own existence.

: The condition of the Matriarch is that it is a Matriarch. So can we have any system that is truly unconditional?
: Scott

To get to an unconditional place it sometimes helps to realize that there are conditions where you are now! Conditioning. Cultural brainwashing. Bring it up, surrender it, get a nice shiny clean brain where unconditionality can live.

As I mention in the beginning of the course, there are some sort of head games... to make you more conscious. To get to think outside the box you have to realize that there is a box!
You are looking at the box now, feeling around its edges, and sometimes experiencing what it is like, outside of the box. Then getting pulled back in by your karma of old fear stuff, but continuing to dismantle the conditioning. It is all good!

: : Are you sure these conclusions are really valid? To me, as a man, it%rsquos easier to think of an unconditional loving female than a man%hellip..  

Yup, that too. Surrender is the imperative of Kundalini and since the idea of Goddess is new to most people it does not automatically engender the reflex of resistance that is the scars of patriarchy. For women especially, who are marginalized by patriarchal diety it is very empowering. Blessings!  

• http://www.venganza.org/index.htm">Spaghetti Monster.

[Scott E]

Thank you for this really good response Mystress. It was exactly what I was looking for.

: Nope it is a head game, and it is functional, it has purpose.

It certainly did have me in a head game for quite a bit. It stirred up a lot of stuff. I had to really question a lot of emotions at every turn.

:   The majority of world religions, the top 3 of Christianity, Judeaism and Muslim are conditional- patriarchal, with an angry remote Father God who smites people. It shapes our thinking, and so consciously switching to a feminine concept of diety both sidesteps the fear and resistance to the cranky fathergod, *and* brings the karma of the cultural patriarchal beliefs to the surface to be realized and surrendered. Triggers the patriarchy issues and the sexist issues so you can let them go.

I admit, that I had lots of fear, especially in the beginning of a punishing God. I transmuted that basic fear eventually. It lingers as a shadow. I immediatly moved into the idea that God may very well be maternal, and I found it to be much more comforting. In retrospect, it allowed the layers to come off a bit.

:   Gustaf wrote a nice post awhile back of how the process brought forth a lot of sexist ideas he did not know he had, because we rarely question the contents of the cultural sea until we are in a different culture and have a comparison and a new frame of reference.

I have a bad habit of "checking out girls". To look away seems to be evasive. To stare, doesn't help. When I look at people I feel I overpower them, or that I get sucked into another world.

: : But if All that Is is the Mother Goddess, and is unconditionally loving, how can it be a Mother?
: : That would be conditioning her own existence.

: : The condition of the Matriarch is that it is a Matriarch. So can we have any system that is truly unconditional?
: : Scott

: To get to an unconditional place it sometimes helps to realize that there are conditions where you are now! Conditioning. Cultural brainwashing. Bring it up, surrender it, get a nice shiny clean brain where unconditionality can live.

After I wrote this, I really thought, and I came to the same exact conclusion. Turning outwards, to a good teacher or some new beliefs or opinions is probably pretty beneficial.

:  You are looking at the box now, feeling around its edges, and sometimes experiencing what it is like, outside of the box. Then getting pulled back in by your karma of old fear stuff, but continuing to dismantle the conditioning. It is all good!

I love the head games. They are the best part I think. Its hard to do work sometimes when I am so used to the headgames. But I like puzzles and insane logic. Thank you for the advice - continue to dismantle the old conditioning. Karma to me feels like old conditioning.

When K first arose, I felt like I wasn't accepted by the "spirtual community". I felt like I had to fight my way in. In the Matriarch, I would be accepted regardlessly.

:
: : : Are you sure these conclusions are really valid? To me, as a man, it%rsquos easier to think of an unconditional loving female than a man%hellip..  

: Yup, that too. Surrender is the imperative of Kundalini and since the idea of Goddess is new to most people it does not automatically engender the reflex of resistance that is the scars of patriarchy. For women especially, who are marginalized by patriarchal diety it is very empowering. Blessings!  

I suppose that I come from a line of thinking similar to that of Krishnamurti, whose famous quote says "Truth is a pathless land", and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. But he also writes a lot about it, in his own brand.

I suppose that I think his statement is true. This has been a very big thing for me. The truth is independent of the path, in my head. But the conditioning also seems to be inevitable. The path also seems to be inevitable.

But you also mention that surrender is also imperative. I agree. Seemingly, also a condition on the journey. The crux of the discussion, for me. Surrender to give up conditioning, but it's a condition that I must surrender. Thats how I used to think of it.

Now, I sort of feel that surrender is more about being conscious of what is going on in awareness. I came to this conclusion from the opposite direction, I think. Mindfullness has a quality of surrender. It kind of meets in the middle. It is both a focused action and also a  surrender. Seems to be a combination of something that is feminine and masculine. But seems to approach from the feminine polarity. I am still unclear on these thoughts, as you can maybe tell.

In computer science, which I studied for 3 years then dropped out of (cuz of wicked K symptoms), there is this problem that is considered to be unsolvable but they can't prove that it isn't. If I recall correctly if you can solve it you will be rewarded a million dollars and probably a nobel prize, and they might ask you to start teaching or something. But the problem is this: make a machine whose output is itself.

I might be wrong that it is unsolvable, however I am pretty certain it is (I did fail that class).

But it gives reverance to the age old question "Who am I?" And that quote that says "400,000 books on metaphysics cannot teach what the soul is." Also even that looking for yourself is a lot like shining a flashlight in a room looking for a flashlight.

My point for bringing up computer science and stuff is that it is probably impossible to come up with a set of beliefs, that represent some sort of concept which is considered to be "unconditional". I suppose we can't define good ideas, but we can approximate bad ones.

Even saying that Goddess loves us unconditionally, is a condition.

My grade 10 English teacher, told me that introverts would lead a much sadder life than the extrovert. He said that extroverts are happier! Haha. I was insulted when I first heard this. Now it makes me laugh. The Matriarch will also help undo this sort of brainwashing.
Thank you for this really good response Mystress. It was exactly what I was looking for.

: Nope it is a head game, and it is functional, it has purpose.

It certainly did have me in a head game for quite a bit. It stirred up a lot of stuff. I had to really question a lot of emotions at every turn.

:   The majority of world religions, the top 3 of Christianity, Judeaism and Muslim are conditional- patriarchal, with an angry remote Father God who smites people. It shapes our thinking, and so consciously switching to a feminine concept of diety both sidesteps the fear and resistance to the cranky fathergod, *and* brings the karma of the cultural patriarchal beliefs to the surface to be realized and surrendered. Triggers the patriarchy issues and the sexist issues so you can let them go.

I admit, that I had lots of fear, especially in the beginning of a punishing God. I transmuted that basic fear eventually. It lingers as a shadow. I immediatly moved into the idea that God may very well be maternal, and I found it to be much more comforting. In retrospect, it allowed the layers to come off a bit.

:   Gustaf wrote a nice post awhile back of how the process brought forth a lot of sexist ideas he did not know he had, because we rarely question the contents of the cultural sea until we are in a different culture and have a comparison and a new frame of reference.

I have a bad habit of "checking out girls". To look away seems to be evasive. To stare, doesn't help. When I look at people I feel I overpower them, or that I get sucked into another world.

: : But if All that Is is the Mother Goddess, and is unconditionally loving, how can it be a Mother?
: : That would be conditioning her own existence.

: : The condition of the Matriarch is that it is a Matriarch. So can we have any system that is truly unconditional?
: : Scott

: To get to an unconditional place it sometimes helps to realize that there are conditions where you are now! Conditioning. Cultural brainwashing. Bring it up, surrender it, get a nice shiny clean brain where unconditionality can live.

After I wrote this, I really thought, and I came to the same exact conclusion. Turning outwards, to a good teacher or some new beliefs or opinions is probably pretty beneficial.

:  You are looking at the box now, feeling around its edges, and sometimes experiencing what it is like, outside of the box. Then getting pulled back in by your karma of old fear stuff, but continuing to dismantle the conditioning. It is all good!

I love the head games. They are the best part I think. Its hard to do work sometimes when I am so used to the headgames. But I like puzzles and insane logic. Thank you for the advice - continue to dismantle the old conditioning. Karma to me feels like old conditioning.

When K first arose, I felt like I wasn't accepted by the "spirtual community". I felt like I had to fight my way in. In the Matriarch, I would be accepted regardlessly.

:
: : : Are you sure these conclusions are really valid? To me, as a man, it%rsquos easier to think of an unconditional loving female than a man%hellip..  

: Yup, that too. Surrender is the imperative of Kundalini and since the idea of Goddess is new to most people it does not automatically engender the reflex of resistance that is the scars of patriarchy. For women especially, who are marginalized by patriarchal diety it is very empowering. Blessings!  

I suppose that I come from a line of thinking similar to that of Krishnamurti, whose famous quote says "Truth is a pathless land", and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. But he also writes a lot about it, in his own brand.

I suppose that I think his statement is true. This has been a very big thing for me. The truth is independent of the path, in my head. But the conditioning also seems to be inevitable. The path also seems to be inevitable. What Krishnamurti may be discussing was probably something that was Matriarchal.

But you also mention that surrender is also imperative. I agree. Seemingly, also a condition on the journey. The crux of the discussion, for me. Surrender to give up conditioning, but it's a condition that I must surrender. Thats how I used to think of it.

Now, I sort of feel that surrender is more about being conscious of what is going on in awareness. I came to this conclusion from the opposite direction, I think. Mindfullness has a quality of surrender. It kind of meets in the middle. It is both a focused action and also a  surrender. Seems to be a combination of something that is feminine and masculine. But seems to approach from the feminine polarity. I am still unclear on these thoughts, as you can maybe tell.

In computer science, which I studied for 3 years then dropped out of (cuz of wicked K symptoms), there is this problem that is considered to be unsolvable but they can't prove that it isn't. If I recall correctly if you can solve it you will be rewarded a million dollars and probably a nobel prize, and they might ask you to start teaching or something. But the problem is this: make a machine whose output is itself.

I might be wrong that it is unsolvable, however I am pretty certain it is (I did fail that class).

But it gives reverance to the age old question "Who am I?" And that quote that says "400,000 books on metaphysics cannot teach what the soul is." Also even that looking for yourself is a lot like shining a flashlight in a room looking for a flashlight.

My point for bringing up computer science and stuff is that it is probably impossible to come up with a set of beliefs, that represent some sort of concept which is considered to be "unconditional". I suppose we can't define good ideas, but we can approximate bad ones.

Even saying that Goddess loves us unconditionally, is a condition.

My grade 10 English teacher, told me that introverts would lead a much sadder life than the extrovert. He said that extroverts are happier! Haha. I was insulted when I first heard this. Now it makes me laugh. The Matriarch will also help undo this sort of brainwashing.

You are right, it is useful for navigation, through all of the conditioning that seems to come to my doorstep.

Scott

[Scott]

Sorry for writing in italics!! I hope you don't get a headache.

[Mystress]

: Thank you for this really good response Mystress. It was exactly what I was looking for.
You are welcome!
:
: : Nope it is a head game, and it is functional, it has purpose.

: It certainly did have me in a head game for quite a bit. It stirred up a lot of stuff. I had to really question a lot of emotions at every turn.

That is the point... stir up the stuff that is to be surrendered, bring it into consciousness.

: :  The majority of world religions, the top 3 of Christianity, Judeaism and Muslim are conditional- patriarchal, with an angry remote Father God who smites people. It shapes our thinking, and so consciously switching to a feminine concept of diety both sidesteps the fear and resistance to the cranky fathergod, *and* brings the karma of the cultural patriarchal beliefs to the surface to be realized and surrendered. Triggers the patriarchy issues and the sexist issues so you can let them go.

: I admit, that I had lots of fear, especially in the beginning of a punishing God. I transmuted that basic fear eventually. It lingers as a shadow. I immediatly moved into the idea that God may very well be maternal, and I found it to be much more comforting. In retrospect, it allowed the layers to come off a bit.

Surrender is the imperative of Kundalini and it has hard to surrender to a concept of the Divine that you do not trust!

: :   Gustaf wrote a nice post awhile back of how the process brought forth a lot of sexist ideas he did not know he had, because we rarely question the contents of the cultural sea until we are in a different culture and have a comparison and a new frame of reference.

: I have a bad habit of "checking out girls". To look away seems to be evasive. To stare, doesn't help. When I look at people I feel I overpower them, or that I get sucked into another world.

I usually end up in empathic unity with anything I focus on for a few minutes. Getting sucked into their world, is one way to put it. With empathy comes karma... so I try to keep my focus turned inward, to stare at my own heart.

: : : But if All that Is is the Mother Goddess, and is unconditionally loving, how can it be a Mother?
: : : That would be conditioning her own existence.

: : : The condition of the Matriarch is that it is a Matriarch. So can we have any system that is truly unconditional?
: : : Scott

: : To get to an unconditional place it sometimes helps to realize that there are conditions where you are now! Conditioning. Cultural brainwashing. Bring it up, surrender it, get a nice shiny clean brain where unconditionality can live.

: After I wrote this, I really thought, and I came to the same exact conclusion. Turning outwards, to a good teacher or some new beliefs or opinions is probably pretty beneficial.

It is good when the answers come from within.

: :  You are looking at the box now, feeling around its edges, and sometimes experiencing what it is like, outside of the box. Then getting pulled back in by your karma of old fear stuff, but continuing to dismantle the conditioning. It is all good!

: I love the head games. They are the best part I think. Its hard to do work sometimes when I am so used to the headgames. But I like puzzles and insane logic. Thank you for the advice - continue to dismantle the old conditioning. Karma to me feels like old conditioning.

Yup, most of it is... but some is personal.

: When K first arose, I felt like I wasn't accepted by the "spirtual community". I felt like I had to fight my way in. In the Matriarch, I would be accepted regardlessly.

: :
: : : : Are you sure these conclusions are really valid? To me, as a man, it%rsquos easier to think of an unconditional loving female than a man%hellip..  

: : Yup, that too. Surrender is the imperative of Kundalini and since the idea of Goddess is new to most people it does not automatically engender the reflex of resistance that is the scars of patriarchy. For women especially, who are marginalized by patriarchal diety it is very empowering. Blessings!  

: I suppose that I come from a line of thinking similar to that of Krishnamurti, whose famous quote says "Truth is a pathless land", and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. But he also writes a lot about it, in his own brand.

Right... he teaches a path too. In the crown chakra, everything is true and nothing is real, and vise-versa. That may have been what he meant... no paths in nonduality, no place to go... just Be.

: I suppose that I think his statement is true. This has been a very big thing for me. The truth is independent of the path, in my head. But the conditioning also seems to be inevitable. The path also seems to be inevitable.

Maybe the truth is independent of your head... The world as we see it in our minds, is not the world... it is a reflection of our beliefs about the world, the conditioning.  The world as we see it from the Witness, is closer to the World as it Is.

: But you also mention that surrender is also imperative. I agree. Seemingly, also a condition on the journey. The crux of the discussion, for me. Surrender to give up conditioning, but it's a condition that I must surrender. Thats how I used to think of it.

: Now, I sort of feel that surrender is more about being conscious of what is going on in awareness. I came to this conclusion from the opposite direction, I think. Mindfullness has a quality of surrender.

Yes, be mindful to remember to surrender!

: It kind of meets in the middle. It is both a focused action and also a  surrender. Seems to be a combination of something that is feminine and masculine. But seems to approach from the feminine polarity. I am still unclear on these thoughts, as you can maybe tell.

Yeah, sometimes it is best to just sit with an idea, let all the beliefs and noise flow on by and see what is left when they have passed.

: In computer science, which I studied for 3 years then dropped out of (cuz of wicked K symptoms), there is this problem that is considered to be unsolvable but they can't prove that it isn't. If I recall correctly if you can solve it you will be rewarded a million dollars and probably a nobel prize, and they might ask you to start teaching or something. But the problem is this: make a machine whose output is itself.

: I might be wrong that it is unsolvable, however I am pretty certain it is (I did fail that class).

Yet, the simplest bacteria can do it...

: But it gives reverance to the age old question "Who am I?" And that quote that says "400,000 books on metaphysics cannot teach what the soul is." Also even that looking for yourself is a lot like shining a flashlight in a room looking for a flashlight.

What the soul IS, cannot be really defined in words, but locating it is not so difficult, it is a tiny star of very bright light, often sitting near the power chakra... but it can go walkies. Then we do a "soul retrieval" to bring it back.
In a random sample of 10,000 books on metaphysics, you can bet that 99% of the total is all gobbeldygook, macarame projects and fantasy. People making things extravagant and complicated to feed an ego sense of accomplishment, "look how clever I am" noises. Genuine spiritual truths are elegantly simple.

 Fire Serpent Tantra came from a different place... when I attained my self realization and started seeing Goddess in everyone, being a spiritual teacher seemed useless and redundant, so I'd quit. Yet people were still contacting me, and coming to me asking me to be as I was, to heal and teach. I was going, "what to teach? You are It!" Just not wanting to engage their illusions, or validate their limiting beliefs about themselves by playing the role.
 I thought maybe if I consolidated what I'd found useful on my path, and the best of my previous writing then people could go there and quit bugging me to go back to being what I was... LOL!!
 Goddess guided me to write it from a place of knowing nobody needs it, except they think they do.
 Goddess never showed me the other side... that once it was created, I would have to maintain it and tend to the students who enrolled!! LOL! Even so, it is an enjoyable way to spend my days. Watching people growing, never gets boring.

 Do you know the story of Confucious? He was retiring, on his way to Tibet to spend his remaining days in mediation when he was stopped by a border guard who had been his student. The border guards duties included making sure great treasures were not smuggled out of China. Confucious himself, was a great treasure of China and the guard would not let him pass until he had written down all of his teachings so they could remain in China. That is where the book of Confucius came from.

: My point for bringing up computer science and stuff is that it is probably impossible to come up with a set of beliefs, that represent some sort of concept which is considered to be "unconditional". I suppose we can't define good ideas, but we can approximate bad ones.

LOL!! A familiar conundrum... Kundalini itself, cannot really be defined either but that sure doesn't stop us from talking about it! There is a list community about nonduality, I have spent time there as it is one of many lists inspired by the K-list, but I'd rather be in nonduality than write poetry about it.

: Even saying that Goddess loves us unconditionally, is a condition.

: My grade 10 English teacher, told me that introverts would lead a much sadder life than the extrovert. He said that extroverts are happier! Haha. I was insulted when I first heard this. Now it makes me laugh. The Matriarch will also help undo this sort of brainwashing.
: Thank you for this really good response Mystress. It was exactly what I was looking for.

You are very welcome!