The Tea Room

For many years I have been aware of a very toxic gender-based abuse pattern in my maternal family.  I have traced this back as far as my great-great grandmother (anecdotally) but know it goes back much farther, possibly for many hundreds of years.  What it looks like is that the mother will abuse her oldest daughter and favor her son.  If there is a younger daughter, she is usually not abused as much as the elder, but still not favored.  The favoring of the son goes to extremes, where the boys of the family can do no wrong in the eyes of  the mother, even when the boys are actually doing a lot of messed up stuff.
My grandmother did this to my mother, my great grandmother did it to my grandmother, and my mother did it to me.  It did not stop in my adult life, with my mother doing very horrible things to me...like trying to have me institutionalized, after I reported to the police that her boyfriend had sexually assaulted me.  There are many other things like this she did, equally bad.  Ultimately I had to sever completely and now do not speak to her.
Obviously, this affected my relationships with both women and men,  for many years I only had male friends as I too had internalized my mother's and grandmother's hatred of women without realizing it.  I have worked on this a lot and it's now reversed where most of my friends are women and I feel more comfortable with women than men.  Feels better!
Now, my mother is Finnish, and is of finnish and lapp origin.  As I child I was told that I came from a long line of lapp shamans, and my mother was always doing psychic things like she would know I was sick and what i was sick with even if she was very far away.  My stepdad always refers to my grandmother as a witch, but I don't believe real witches are mean abusive energy-suckers like my grandma.
Two years ago I was in a vision space using my third eye to explore my time in utero.  What I felt, felt very bad.  I felt myself as a tiny embryo, in a space all black, that seemed like there were monsters in it.  My mothers energy was all around., attacking me.  I felt like it was going to kill me.  I understood then why my mother had 3 miscarriages before she had me--those babies couldn't take it!
Then, I stopped feeling and began to see with my 3rd eye.  I could see the lineage extending back through the generations of the women in my mothers family.  It looked kind of like a grapevine, except it was a dense black, the color of a black hole, blacker than black.  Full of dense energy.  It went back into the past for many years, connecting all the women together.  Well, not all the women, but all the eldest  daughters, one per generation. 
I have three boys and no girls...I began to understand why, because despite being connected to this lineage i have consistently refused to duplicate any of the abusive patterns of my parents' families.  I am a connected and loving mother.  I saw I needed to do something to break out of this lineage, which felt extremely evil to me.  I asked my reiki teacher to help me and she immediately sensed what to do.  I told her, I think these women are witches, but really more like vampires not real witches, and I'm scared of them and this connection.  She encouraged me to surrender my fear and together in vision space we held a party for them.  We invited them all to come, all came except my mother who refused.  I surrendered my fear and that made them all very happy.  They all danced around a bonfire, and when the music we'd put on stopped, they all fell down and after that they were all free.  Even my mean old grandma.  But not my mother.
This event created a huge shift for me.  For a long time after I worked at cutting the cords my mother had put on me, which she was using both to take energy and to dump her unwanted shit into.  I went to a shaman and he pulled out tons of crap and entities that had been channelled into me through my mom.  A lot of the entities looked like space bugs.  After a few months of constant daily work she stopped trying to reattach.  I did a lot of other work too, to sever from her.
I went on vacation, and happened to meet a witch in another state. I made an appointment to consult with her about a squeezing sensation in my head.  She told me it was  caused by an octopus like etheric creature that had been my mother's servant (she knew nothing about my background) and that I had done such a good job severing from my mother that the creature was now my servant.  It was squeezing my head to get attention.  The witch told me that the octopus thing could do stuff for me, like summon demons!  I replied that I didn't want that, I wanted it to leave.  She said it preferred not to leave, but if I insisted it would.  I said it could stay if it wanted to be in the light with me, but that I wasn't going to use it for any black magic and that it had to do light work.  Then, the creature transformed into a happy fairy thing and turned pink.  Since this, my mother has left me a lone energetically.  I kind of lost track of the octopus fairy, not sure if it is still hanging around or what.
So....I don't know if these women were really witches or shamans at one point, and then it got corrupted into the vampirism that I saw, or if they were always vampires...I know I am not alone in coming from this type of family pattern.  I'm asking you all if anyone knows what this type of toxic lineage is?  How can I understand all this better?
Furthermore, as a child I was always doing witchy things and often they worked.   I was never trained or initiated as a witch.  I was not at all ethical and tried to use magic for power.  For example, in my 20s I worked for an abusive french chef.  He was a really mean guy and after a while I lost patience and cursed his bakery.  It was closed within 30 days.  shortly thereafter I  got into yoga, realized with horror the karma I was creating, and vowed never to do that sort of thing again. 
Now I have learned that I am pregnant with a daughter.  She was conceived during my first ever experiment with sacred sex, but that's another story....I feel so honored to be finally having a girl, and to me it is like goddess is confirming that I have really broken free from this toxic lineage.  Additionally, I am feeling guided that maybe I should be initiated into being a real witch, in order to reclaim all these generations of misused power and reclaim my own magical power.  I would be very grateful to hear everyone's speculations, insights, opinions etc on all of this, and would be especially honored to hear from another person who has had a similar experience.  Thank you so much,
Jennifer

Hi Jennifer,

i'm generally aware of family and ethnic patterns, from observations of my own familiar origin as well as others', vampirism, well maybe among them.

One or two years ago i heard about the so-called epigenetic switches theory, where e.s. are something in addition to DNA, because otherwise, alone by DNA,  phenomena can't be explained.
So has been found, that significant events in the life of a predecessor throw their shadow thru generations, just like childhood events do in one life.
Already the bible speaks of it's God's curses that pass thru 1000 generations.
In tribal societies there are often professional lineages: shamans, historians, musicians...
Looks like some hereditary programming, suggestions going on and on.

The case, that especially moms shit-treat there daughters is probably not so uncommon, although it gladly seems to somewhat grow out of fashion.
Looks like a patriarchal problem, or rather one underlying patriarchy.
Where women are prevented  from DB thru prefering various kinds of (other)males; At the dawn of patriarchy there was a religious shift towards the Goddess and Her beloved son, which is of course a Christian motif too.
So what i assume is, that all these women of your lineage are principally light-witches, who want to be good Christians or something analogous(Pagans), like Yourself.
At least i got the impression from Your post; firstly, because of the 'lineage-law of passing things on', secondly because embracing a light path appears typical for patriarchal women(like all Christian nuns for example). But light-paths look one-sided to me, if there is a Christian connection or not, because polarity is missing. An example from electricity can illustrate it: try to feed a light-bulb without polarity furnishes no power at all.
The bulb will need other sources, and the temptation for a witch who can hex is evident.

So this is my explanation for 'Vampyrism': You psychically gifted womenfolk thru generations are just desparately hunting for a befitting power supply,  since the vast source of the subconscious is choked off.

One secure road to further damage oneself is, to disregard the golden rule (in the form given by Teacher:) u2r1.
As you seem to put it with your mom as: u2r2, but this is separation.
Can a person detach from another, e.g. one's own mom?
In dayly life there are a lot of evil suggestions involved: suggestions of basic condemnation of certain people(or whole populations), and it's those that come around, because of u2r1, and hit you multiplied.
Well this is valid for curses, suggestions which happen to make permanent impressions on the soul(which i'd define as those epigenetic switches).

Another thing to me seems the episode with the chef, who seemed to have cried for this treat, so i suppose there has been consens from his side at least thru the unconscious.
This didn't seem to affect you, in a way that sth had been coming around, until you heard about Karma in the Yoga classes, maybe falling victim of their suggestions making You feel guilty, although i can't be sure.
If You didn't permanently harm , i assume it was ok.

But i wouldn't judge your mom so heavily, because that will make it hard to clear the worst stuff inside yourself: the same stuff, She is suffering from:  good intentions('mad' love for the opposite sex), forgetting mindfulness, DB, leading to low power & hell.

This vid is about the duality of outward and inward love, the fall from grace, regaining grace and above all, an hommage to DB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yNgH5vX_Bs  eny-oy!

juergen

wonder who hexed that link :'( , here it is again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yNgH5vX_Bs
:P

Juergen,
Thank you so much for your reply, I found it very intriguing.  Reading it prompted me to go back and do some research on my Lapp heritage, about which I honestly know very little.  Turns out that the Lapps are really called the Sami people, and that women are very strong in Sami culture.  There is speculation that Sami culture was once a matriarchy.  The Sami are a nomadic people who practice an earth-based pagan spirituality, and indeed most of the shamans were women and transmission of shamanism was lineage-based.  So it appears that what i was told may be true.  There is no Christianity to speak of in my family except for my great-grandmother who was married to a Methodist minister and was said to be a very spiritual person.  Everyone since her is atheists (except me)
So, I am not sure if I agree with this issue being a patriarchal one, based on that information.....it is true that in my mothers family the women tend to be dominant, to put it mildly....domineering could be another way to phrase it.
However, it's also about mistreating the daughters, which to me is woman-hating, and that feels patriarchal.....could it be that my lineage once was different, and in recent years has been corrupted by patriarchal influences, and turned into a toxic thing? 
I know what you're saying about u2r1.  However, my mother has been sooooo destructive to me that in order to protect myself I really feel strongly that i must sever all real-world and energetic connections.  Perhaps I could learn to do that in a less judgmental way, more out of self-love than out of disliking her.  I do see that she is misguided and suffering from good intentions, all the things you said.  But her destructive acts have been so egregious, I have given her so so many chances, I need to be done with her now.  I welcome any suggestions on how to keep this boundary I feel i need without being judgmental.  Or if it is impossible, or I am misguided, i want to hear.
I would like to share something else that i learned today.  For a month I have had a persistent severe pain in my left shoulder/neck/arm with numbness in my fingers.  Chiropractor can't fix it.  Rolfer with cold laser can't fix it.  I surrender it and surrender it, it will not leave.  So I accept that goddess wants me to look at it more.  I do and what do I see?  I am still corded to my mother, she has reattached.  Along with the cord comes a message, "There is no cord, you are imagining it."  For about thirty seconds i believe the message, then major alarm bells go off.  I used mystress' technique of cord removal all day, did no good ,kept reattaching.  Last time i worked on this it took me months toget her to stop reattaching and i had a lot of fear about the vampirism.  Finally I started using the other technique for vampires, sucking my own energy back into myself.  Already i feel better.  Now i see that this occurred as a lesson, so that i could surrender my fear of being corded by using mystress'technique of sucking my energy back.  I am no longer afraid and feel more empowered.  I am grateful to my mother for her stubborn vampirism that forced me to learn this technique.  Thank you, goddess, for showing me this and thank you mystress for your amazing techniques and teachings.  I welcome all further comments, I'm wondering also if anyone has any ideas on how i could further explore a non-corrupted, non-vampiristic version of sami shaminism for myself, because I still feel a strong urge to reclaim this in a positive way.  How does one explore lineage based shamanism when pretty much all of the members of ones' tribe are dead and gone...and i don't speak their language....perhaps i could explore a different type?  Or just do something else, or surrender my attachment to reclaiming and see what arises in its stead.
Namaste,
Jennifer

So You haven't cleared it with the root.
The conception of the mirror, i understand by comparing the moon with the sun. It's more convenient and safer to look at the moon than at the sun(in that song: "my light shall be the moon"), and and above all: the moon is more informative, more details to see.  Accordingly it's easier to study the surroundings than to look into oneself( the ego is probably doing this: blinding us for its survival instinct ); and if the environment is a reflection of us, it must be also very informative about us. So why not surrender what we see there, especially if it's really bugging us, as if there were some resonance; we could also understand resonance as love, 2 in resonance, 2 in love.
If the corresponding energetic structure would be erased in one of them "lovers",  love or resonance can no longer exist.
So if i would experience drastic cruelty of some sort by another, i would try to surrender exactly this, so as to not attract it longer. Kind of divorce, fire dying in one of the couple. That structure would die afterwards in the other person, e.g. Your mom, too or find another victim.

I bet You have tons of beautiful gifts from Your lineage including Your mom, and i think a few wrecked switches shouldn't disturb this, even if it seems so.
As with Matriarchy, i refer to Leonardo da Vinci, whose invention of the aeroplane was a bit premature at that time, the one or other little switch had to be set at first rightly.
Goddess will certainly do this if we let Her.

Hey, cool people here from all directions and origins!
In some context i have heard about shamans from Lappland; interesting is, that shamans exist around the whole globe, and there seems a revival going on, (while the more bigoted natural scientists seem on the decline within academic science itself.)
My former wife is from Korea, they have also some Matriarchal background i think, one island with "househusbands" while women are diving for pearls. Today there are also issues with prefering sons to daughters, but things seem on a change: often the preferred sons have a hard time later in life, nowadays...
Yes and they also have a shamanic culture; next to oriental medicine and western style.

So when the Harddisk with its operatingsystem(s) is virus-contaminated(ego-stuff), this contamination will likely defend itself, and the virus-checker must come from outside( network-admin, or cd-rom-boot with ram-disk or sth else ). The outside virus-chequer is clean and cannot be distorted by the "ego-structure aka virus" on the hd. The clean virus chequer is our bugging and striking life-circumstances with our ability to perceive. It is outside so it can be objective.
That's what this is actually about in my views.

I wish You much success,

juergen

After doing more thinking/ research I believe this pattern to be a result of patriarchal corruption of a formerly matriarchal culture.  The Saami people underwent a forced assimilation in the 1800s.  Their songs were called devil songs and banned.  The shamans drums were called devil drums and burned.  The Saami were forced to desecrate their sacred places.  This was done by christian missionaries.  Oh yeah I'm sure Jesus would have loved that you "Christians".  This is very sad and upsetting to me because one other thing I discovered is I really resonate with this culture, too bad it has been exterminated.  Even if you found a practicing Saami shaman today, they would just be practicing an approximation / reconstruction of real Saami shamanism, because nobody knows what it was any more because the Saami had no written language.
As far as U2r1 and my mother, well maybe u2r1 with a stampeding elephant as well but that does not mean Iam going to stand in front of one and let it squish me.  I simply do not believe that I am causing or contributing to this sick behavior on her part.  I have surrendered / extinguished / diesngaged from it on my side so many times.  In so many ways.  I have done karmic clearings, seen realized masters about this and many other things that i was assured would clear the problem by clearing it inside of me.  i have been to shamans and many others.....I do not control other people.  Her free will is her own and not a projection of what's inside me...in no way am I asking for or wanting this.  I do not control her and will not take responsibility for her actions.
And anyway, say I was wrong about that, how did an innocent baby deserve what she did to me?  There is no way any baby deserved her abuse.  That baby did not have a corresponding fire in its heart that invited the abuse.  I know because I remember being that baby.
Perhaps i am misunderstanding, I don't know, I wish there were more people posting in this tea room because it would be so great to have more of a dialogue going on here, or maybe that is just selfish of me to be wanting feedback, I don't know.
What I do know is that my mother continues to harm me and i need it to stop,. I don't want to go into the details but basically it has to stop, I am reaching the end of my rope with all of it and unfortunately she is very rich and has all the time in the world to fuck with me using the legal system.  I need a specific method or technique to use here, please if anyone has one I implore you to give me something specific to at least try.  Surrendering isn't working, taking the energy back through the cord felt good at first but doesn't seem to be working any more and even has created another legal onslaught.  I am sorry but I just feel this woman is pure evil, and she acts like that and always has  even when I give her unconditional love.
Namaste,
Jennifer

Hi Jennifer.  This thread is interesting.  Though I've not had identical experiences as you, they are quite similar in many ways.  I've been working with such things extensively and have learned many things.  Maybe these things can be of use to you.  There is so much more (for me) to learn, but it gets easier when it's explored from the perspective of the scientist, and not the victim.

Almost 2 years ago a woman slammed me with a powerful black magick attack.  Never having had any such experience, I resisted.  Which is exactly the goal of the one who sends such things. 

When I complained to others, (which of course, is what a victim does) this one woman very firmly said to me:  "You are not the victim!  Get out of the victim mode!"

Of course, that made no sense, but rather than reject what she said, it set me to an exploration that has become an amazing journey.  Anyone who has come into my life who is spiritually mature, has said the same thing:  You are not the victim.  YOU ARE CREATING IT.  Of course, when feeling the victim, that sounds absurd!  And to really make it seem absurd, the woman who attacked me the first time attacked me again - by using an innocent bystander as a surrogate!  Only by grace I think did I refuse to disregard that voice that kept saying:  You are not the victim!

My mother treated me like crap too.  There are 6 kids in my family and all my siblings agree that I was singled out.  5 girls and a single boy...and let me tell you he was worshipped.  All us kids were brought up in the Worldwide Church of God - a very strict and certainly patriarchal church with a clear intent that women are to be abased.  Mom was angry, narcicistic and demanding.  Mean.  Why?  Because women were essentially worthless and had to OBEY!  Who can experience love in that environment?  Yet she was only re-creating her own up-bringing by being involved with such a church.  Like most of the rest of us, she had re-created her own athoritarian lifestyle by adopting her same role...with the church as the oppressor.  Trust me, Mom had it MUCH WORSE growing up than I ever did.  She was simply acting out the same drama that she learned growing up.  Like so many, she was helpless to her own thought patterns...Creating misery for her self.  Kids come along, and the patterns continue.  Then, holy crap!  I did it too!  Arguhhhh!

But the past is the past.  None of that exists anymore.  What DOES exist is the behavior and thought patterns that are LEARNED as we grow up.  (Until we notice and change them.)  Same with all of us.  And those patterns that are formed in us at an early age and are added to as we grow older, cause us to re-create life in the same way, over and over and over.  Little replications.  This continues until we change the way we THINK and behave.  Our behavior is what attracts these situations to us.  The filters that are put in place in our mind (as we grow up) cause us to see the world in specific ways.  i.e.:  Seeing the world through shit-filtered glasses....or rose colored.  The world is not the same for any 2 people:  We create our reality based on how it appears to us individually.

So, for me - since the church and my mother were the 2 biggest players in my life (had the biggest emotional impact, and formed the largest amount of structure in my thinking processes), as soon as I left the house (couldn't wait to get away from that mother of mine) I replaced the church by going into the Marine Corps, and replaced my mother by marrying my ex - who was just my mother in a man's body.  Why?  Because those were the programs that were running in my mind.  Little replications.

And all that almost killed me.

Err, rather, I fell strongly into victim mode and almost killed myself.  Poor me.

No need for more detail, but suffice it to say that I'm grateful that some part of me stood up once I hit bottom and said, "What the fuck am I doing to myself?"  Thankfully, some part of me kept an open and objective mind, and did not reject the concept that I was actually doing it. 

Not when you're a baby.  When you're a little kid, you're at the mercy of your environment.  But once we're old enough to be on our own, we have a choice.  It doesn't feel like that - but it's true.  We absolutely have a choice, every minute of every day to do life any way we choose.  To feel whatever we choose. 

Trying to understand this "you are not the victim" concept can take a lot of time and effort.  There is so much evidence available that we actually ARE the victim.  But it's worth being persistant with it.  It's worth trying to get it.  I'm still working on it, but so much has come to light!  It can be so amusing to see how we do life, and then to take an active part in doing it differently! 

Responding, rather than reacting.

It's very much about control.  Trying to control.  To be in charge.  Trying to change things...people, and what they do.  It's a game.  Takes more than one to play.  Each is playing the same game.  If one stops playing, the game ends.  Maybe not in an instant...but it will end when WE stop playing it. 

But the game has to stop in the mind.  It's not about getting rid of someone, or making them stop hurting us.  It's about stopping the thought patterns that feed the game. Taking notice of the thoughts that run through the mind, and consciously directing them until new patterns are created, gives freedom.  It's about dissolving the anger and the fear by not allowing it to run free in our minds.  Learning to see ourself in everything around us.  It's also about recognising that the very poisons we're resisting are - or at least potentially can be - the most incredible and empowering blessings in our lives.  They are the keys to breaking free. 

Don't know about you but I certainly became my mother, and that damn church.  It's often the very things that we resist the most that we have become.  And it can't be seen if one refuses to look at it objectively.  It's very subtle.  We may not behave in the exact same way as the one we resist, but it manifests in other ways.  I found that the one I was abusing the most was me - my self.  But truthfully, any time I accused someone of behaving badly, it was me playing the same roles that I hated most.  Sometimes seeing that is quite humiliating.

Sure, there are all these factors that we can blame stuff on.  But in the end, NOTHING outside of us can cause us to feel anything, except that we hand the power to it.  Surrendering stuff and maintaining resistance to the stuff surrendered is not surrender.  I'm not saying all this because I've mastered it.... There's still plenty of stuff on my own plate.  But I'm getting it.  And to describe it in words is only a tiny part of understanding it.  Words are so limited, and the experience of seeing how we actually create this stuff is too much for words.

Getting it is not about a teaching.  Getting it is about experiencing it.  Nobody can really tell you how to 'do' this thing you have before you.  But it might be helpful to offer yourself to it and ask your Self or Goddess or whoever you want to ascribe the title, to help you to understand it.  Not understand on an intellectual level - but rather on an experiencial level.  The intellectual is useful to an extent, but it also can be a massive hinderance.  The feminine has caused pain for you (and I).  She is also that very thing that heals us.

The past is gone.  The shamanic teachings of the past, in practice may be gone.  Being angry about that is a desire to control that which can't be controlled.  It imprisons.  Is Creation not capable of bringing teachings to those who should have them? 

Yup, I became those very things I hated the most.  But finally seeing that - seeing the patterns and behaviors and thoughts...is so liberating.  The next step then, is to create the new.  To create from a new perspective.  And just let all that yucky poopy stuff be there.  Because it's not going away.  It's always there.  It has to be, in order to balance out all the really beautiful stuff.

It may also be helpful to give yourself permission to do and to be all the things that you want in your life....  As we grow up we are exposed to so many 'rules' and regulations...many of which are never spoken, but only implied.  Rules such as:  "Thou Shalt Never Have Fun!" or "You are unlovable!" or "You can never be anybody worthy of happiness!" or "You must suffer in life in order for it to be meaningful!", etc.  Sometimes sitting down and saying, out loud, "I give myself permission to......" can be a powerful way to open to positive change.   

You are worthy of Joy. 
Blessings!
Eileen

Dear Eileen,
Thanks very much for your response.  I read it with great interest.  I did spend a lot of time de-programming all the negative self-talk in my mind, successfully as far as I can tell.  That stuff is gone, and much of it was from my mother.  I have changed my behavior patterns as well.  None of this has changed the situation.  I am really not sure what is stuck, or where, I cannot for the life of me figure out what I would need to do or change to get the pattern to shift.  I've done a lot of work with this, changed so many things, don't see that external shift happening.  So yes, it is very hard for me to believe any more that I am creating it, though I used to think that.  Still, you may be right.  i really don't know.  What I do know is that my life seems to be falling apart more and more every day, and probably soon I won't have the luxury of so much introspection.  My husband has just decided to leave me, I don't know why, and I'm pregnant and can't work right now. Oh, I guess I do know why, he says the constant legal onslaught from my family is too much for him.  So, looks like they won....don't know how me and my kids will get by. 
And yes, I agree that the universe would provide if it were meant for me to continue the shamanic lineage.  that hardly seems appropriate at this point considering i can barely take care of my own needs and those of my children....I have stopped the work I used to do for people, where I would do energy work or whatever, because I don't feel qualified any more. I am not exactly angry about what happened to the Saami, really more sad.  So....did they then create the christian missionaries who exterminated them?  This point of view seems unnecessarily cruel to me, but as you say many spiritual people insist it is true. 
Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts, I'd love to hear more if you have anything else to add.
namaste,
Jennifer

Personally, I think it is an important point to make that the cure has to be the client's cure and not the therapists. I also think the client must be allowed the privilege of defining her own problem. My first reaction to Eileen's article was some anger, because it made me think of quite a few therapists I have seen over the years, mostly for my stomach problems. These therapists are "specialised" in a funny way, because they seem to treat all their clients for the same problem, regardless of whether they have it or not, or to kind of put their clients into a pre-made box, regardless of whether they fit there or not. Therefore, it is important that you meet the right therapist or use a method that works for you. Today, I am happy in that respect.

Basically my stomach problems were, I think, caused by kundalini activity and the most severe part of them came actually from my back, so what I needed most of all was to se a chiropractor. Instead one therapist told me I had a voice in my head commenting on all I did and making me upset, and she offered me to help me quieting that voice, which she said would be a major relief. I did not have such a voice. After 20-35 years of meditation and occasional yoga and an awakened kundalini my mind was normally silent when I did not use it for specific tasks. And I wasn't upset, only severely tortured by pain, which actually came from my back. I guess quite a few of those therapist might have closed my case as "cured", although it didn't feel much different afterwards then before.

To me the concept of "victim" – and especially "you think you are a victim" – resonates rather similar to that therapist's talk regarding "little voice in the head". Some clients have that problem; some have other problems they need to deal with instead. Personally, I basically don't understand the concept of victim at all. It's simply too far from my way of thinking and experiencing reality. To me it is nothing but a totally useless generalisation of things which could better be described with other terms – or even better be fully experienced without any theoretical concepts to take our attention away from reality. If I was to use theoretical concepts, I would rather use more powerful harmonizing concepts such as "God loves all – with no exceptions – unconditionally.", "The world is a big play-ground where we are always perfectly safe and are supposed to enjoy ourselves and have fun." or "There is love at the bottom of everything."

Now, the problem is defined as a mother somehow abusing her grown up daughter. In this context the statements "you created it" and "you cannot decide how others act" simply don't go together. It is my belief that we do actually create our total life experience and that we recreate it several times each second. Thus we are obviously able to change everything, even other people. NLP has a lot of quick-fixes for this. Sometimes they work, but I would guess most often they don't. The problem is that the world is formed by our expectations and that most of them are subconscious and some even unconscious. It is not so easy to change our subconscious and even more difficult to change the unconscious, I suppose. However, negative expectations and thus negative experiences and behaviour patterns are created by what we might call suppressed emotions. To change our life experiences we therefore need to set free these suppressed emotions so that the divine energy can run free and create bliss in that part of our reality too. This is what yoga and meditation and kundalini is all about.

People are different and might need to use different tools to release suppressed emotions. The basic elements of our perceptions, and therefore of out thinking and of our maps of the world, are what we see, hear, smell taste or feel like body sensations or emotions. Then we also use digital thinking in words when we map reality. Therefore a visual image (eg yantra), a sound (eg mantra), an emotion (eg from a similar event), a body pose (eg asana) or treatment (eg massage), a smell (eg aroma therapy), a taste (eg from spices), an intellectual explanation (eg "you are not the victim") or any combination of those we find useful can be helpful to set free suppressed emotions. Some people might need an intellectual understanding, such as understanding that "you are not the victim" or analysing behaviour patterns. Some people, like my self, need some body work. But these are only tools and there are probably no tools that work equally good for everyone and all the time. Eg analysing behaviour patterns can be a tool to help you get rid of the suppressed emotions, but the patterns are only the symptom not the cause of it. You might need to find your own tools to get at the cause.

Here, I believe emotions might often be a key element, because we are dealing with suppressed emotions. And what is happening when there is a major problem in life like the one described here, is actually that we get help from our life experience to get rid of an old trauma. What is unfolding is a situation which is similar to the one causing the trauma in the way that it activates emotions (and sometimes other memories) which are similar to those created by the old trauma. The present day experience becomes much worse because old feelings are added to the one caused today. But here we actually also get a key to releasing the suppressed emotions as we get in touch with the old feelings. Thus, focusing on these feelings as an object and avoiding identifying with them might be a major part of the solution. From this perspective emotionally demanding life situations might even be considered bliss, although painful.

Obviously we cannot solve all problems by releasing old suppressed emotions. One might say, we have to live too and take care of the events of our lives in a practical way. When a woman is just about to be murdered by a killer who attacked her in the park, she needs to think "What can I do to stop him?" not "Hmmm.... What old memories and suppressed emotions does this event bring up?" Therefore, there might be a need for practical solutions to stop or avoid your mother's attacks, too. But to find those, you might prefer to consult a personal coach or maybe a lawyer.

Sorry for getting overly intellectual! Basically, I don't like speaking of spiritual matters. My words are so insufficient and just tend to fall flat on the ground. Therefore, I seldom comment on others problems. However, you asked for more comments...

Quote from: Vyana on Aug 21, 2007, 02:02:16 AM
Personally, I think it is an important point to make that the cure has to be the client's cure and not the therapists. I also think the client must be allowed the privilege of defining her own problem. My first reaction to Eileen's article was some anger, because it made me think of quite a few therapists I have seen over the years, mostly for my stomach problems. These therapists are "specialised" in a funny way, because they seem to treat all their clients for the same problem, regardless of whether they have it or not, or to kind of put their clients into a pre-made box, regardless of whether they fit there or not. Therefore, it is important that you meet the right therapist or use a method that works for you. Today, I am happy in that respect.

Hi Vyana.  Perhapse some of the words I wrote in my post were overlooked as you read.  Or perhapse I am truly projecting excessively.  I'll certainly take a good look at that - as they say:  "when we point the finger...there are 3 pointing back at us"   

Stomach is the power chakra, and the place where we digest life so to speak.  Digestion may be improved and pain/problems relieved when we improve illimination.  On all levels.
Blessings!
Eileen

Quote from: Jennifer on Aug 20, 2007, 11:42:08 PM
None of this has changed the situation.   So yes, it is very hard for me to believe any more that I am creating it, though I used to think that. 

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  Keeping in mind that I do not for a moment think that I have all the answers...which is why I suggested that my words MAY be of use to you...or they may not...there may be room for a little clarification.

Mystress told in a post a while back of an instance where she fell into the icy (and deadly cold) waters of the sea.  She noticed her options (she can re-tell if she would like, so the details are correct) and chose an option.  And she lived.  She did not create being tossed into the deadly cold sea.  She created her response, and received an outcome as the result of it.

Pema Choodron (pronounced with a long O) gives an example in her book "Comfortable With Uncertainty" of a big burly Samari warrior who comes from the battle field into the Sanctuary and seeks out the Abbot of the Monestary.  "Master, teach me the difference between Heaven and Hell." 

The Abbot scowled at him and looked him up and down, then spat on him.  "Why you big nasty killer!  I haven't the time of day for you!"  He then turned his back to the warrior.

The Samari warrior flew into a rage and drew his sword.  He was in full swing, about to lop off the head of the Abbot, when he said:  "That is Hell."

The Samari warrior froze in shame, dropped his sword and immediately fell to the floor to kiss the feet of the teacher.  "Oh Master!  Forgive me!"

To that the Abbot said, "That is Heaven."


Pema Choodron has a wonderful set of CDs which are her recordings of lecture given some time ago, and the title of it is "Getting Unstuck."  She is a Western born Tibetan Buddhist nun.  I'm not Buddhist, but there are some wonderful teachings in this set and she is just so fun and heart warming to listen to.  In my opinion, this is very very helpful to listen to when feeling stuck.

Life happens.  We may not literally create our house burning down, or a hurricane, or the death of a little child.  But we do create our response, and each choice has an effect on how things go in the aftermath.  Noticing how we do these things is not a matter of finding BLAME with ourselves.  That's an entirely different vibration.  It's helpful to look for it from a sense of compassion to the self, and to reward ourselves when we do notice..and gently bring ourselves into the though form/patterns that we desire, out of love.  Not out of being angry at ourselves. 

Any time we allow another person to use a vice against us, we are making a choice.  Oh, I've certainly walked that path..  It was the way much of my 40+ years have been!  It can be so difficult to take responsibility. 

Your inner self, your DB...knows how to walk you out of whatever paths you walk.  Outside help gives some direction, but ultimately we do have to fight our own battles.  There are layers too.  The one thing that I know helps, for sure, is to just keep asking "How can I understand this better."  And the right comments will come from the right people, or the right circumstances will appear, or various clues will jump up in front of us.  "How can I get to the bottom...the core of this?"  And then to listen.  Sure, there's lots of information that may not be useful, and comments from folks like me may not apply.  Take what you need and just discard the rest.  Kind of like going shopping.  Not all the apples are the right ones for your basket.  Take the ones you want.  Someone else will take the others, and some will be thrown away in the end.  Each apple has done it's best to form itself as perfectly as it can, and offers what it is able.

Blessings
Eileen

Dear Vyana,
Thank you for your input.  I too feel frustrated by multiple people telling me I am creating this.  Eileen, I still am really grateful that you are in dialogue with me, so please don't take that to mean I don't appreciate your posts....I do.  But I really have spent a lot of time working with my negative thought patterns, and have dismantled many.  That has created a big change for me, just in terms of the peace I am able to feel.  But it also seems to escalate the shit in my worldly life.  i notice that the more peace I experience in meditations etc, the more shit will come up in the outside world to challenge me.   And I don't mean just stuff clearing, which i can handle, I mean trauma.
This is weird.  Why do I need horrible, major problem type events to "test" my commitment to meditating and being peaceful?  I don't think goddess would do that to me.
Rather, what I believe is that my awakening has been very frightening to my mother, and that she can sense it whether she is in my life or not, and that the further my awakening progresses the more she attacks in order to basically, make it stop because she sees in me a mirror of her in myself.  She sees her own abuse (I'm assuming she was abused, that is my theory because people aren't born all fucked up like her, and why else would she be so quick to deny mine) but it is too threatening for her to see, she has to keep it repressed instead.  And the way to do it is to get rid of me, who keeps triggering her issues.  It is really very sad. 
I believe I have completely remade myself over the course of my life.  I treat my own children very well and have a close and loving relationship with them.  My therapist says that based on my upbringing, she cannot understand how I can be the way I am now with my kids.  And it's not just that.  I had so many abuse and neglect based thought patterns, abandonment issues etc it was ridiculous.  And I still have some, many fewer though....and I see them clearly and work on them daily....I'm sure it's tempting to think I'm in denial, really am creating this, haven't changed patterns but that's simply not the case.   My therapist is continually telling how amazed she is at my rapid growth and change.  And she's not the type to just say that.  I process things differently from other people, somehow I do it with my body, I don't fully understand.
But my point is, with what I have been through in life most people would be dead three times over at least. To state only a few things: I have been severely neglected and abused as a child by parents, stepparents and others; I have had my genius husband who I loved get stabbed in the brain by a robber and go nuts and turned into a junkie who robbed banks himself; I have had my mother attempt to institutionalize me multiple times when I was by no means crazy or even close and then I was kidnapped by a random psychopath off the street, raped multiple times and threatened with death and somehow I managed to escape from the guy.
And after THAT incident, yes I started to create it myself.  After the abduction and rape I had PTSD, thought nobody would ever want me or understand, and picked a really bad abusive guy to be with.  So I DO know what that looks like, and that's why I really think now that I'm not creating this.  After a couple years with the abusive asshole I went into EMDR therapy, processed the rape and other incidents, and began to permanently change my patterns.  I have done HUNDREDS of hours EACH  of EMDR, hypnotherapy, rolfing, traditional therapy, shamanic work, polarity etc.  This was back when I had money!  I did this, not for myself, but for my children.  Because I couldn't give it to myself.  Then enough shifted that i could give it to myself. 
Now, after some years of this work my mother came to visit me.  "Hmm, you seem to have achieved some sort of lasting peace,"  she said.  "HOW did you manage THAT?"  she was not pleased.  and after that the worst attacks ever began and have not stopped.
Sorry, but that's not me creating it.
I think what's happening here is I'm acting as some kind of a mirror for fucked up people to scapegoat me.  I saw this very clearly in my yoga class the other day.  This woman came, I was very kind to her, and she just kept attacking.  "This yoga class is a joke"  Class had not even begun, because she was disrupting it....how could she judge?  There was no basis.  It was laughable, yet also unpleasant.  In the end, she refused to leave, and I had to have her escorted away by security!  How fucked up is that?  I gather from the website that mystress gets a fair amount of random attack too, for her views and opinions.  She's not creating that.  Other people are projecting.  She says it is a way of asking for love, and I see that too...asking for interaction.....if that is what my mother is doing, well it seems she can only accept my love on her terms, terms in which I am crazy/fucked up/a dumping ground for her.
If I was creating it, I would see improvement / shifts  / change in the relationship as I go through my therapeutic process, along with the shifts I do see in my own life. .  Instead, what I see is, the more I evolve, the more other people throw their crap at me.  It is to the point where I have NO FRIENDS, people I have been close to for 20 years have just evaporated or blown up our friendship for no real reason I can see.  NO family left for me, and now my husband is doing it too.   He is determined to leave, because "just being around me is horrible."  What the hell do i do to him?  i love him and support him, I occasionally complain like anyone but I always try to be tactful....he won't even go to counseling with me, for the sake of our kids.,  says he's not interested in saving the marriage.
I am VERY careful to avoid unwanted empathy, that became a whole practice for me while I was studying bodywork.  I used to get tons of other peoples shit and karma like that and wanted to never do any bodywork again.   But afer a while of that happening I realized that studying bodywork needed to continue, so that i could learn how to avoid unwanted empathy .
Now, I don't do the empathy shit from my side, if I ever catch myself thinking anyone needs anything from me I immediately surrender it, but I feel like I am STILL getting tons of peoples karma and crap flowing onto me.  This doesn't happen with my students, not ever.  I don't pick up shit from them, or if I do I don't notice.  It happens with husband, family and  friends. 
Some people hate me for no reason, they don't even know me and decide they hate me and attack.  Others are drawn to me as a teacher and try to take as many of my classes as they can.  There's not a lot in between.  Most of my students come to every single class I teach.
I am not ready, to be a guru, processing others' karma for them.  I am not strong enough myself and don't have the proper techniques.  I don't want that responsibility.  But that is exactly what I feel is happening with my husband and possibly my mom too, even when I tell the universe to please make it stop.  For example, one night my husband will meditate, go to sleep and feel that "Shiva has lifted something from him" whereas  that same night  I will fall asleep next to him  in a good, peaceful grounded space and wake up all fucked up and full of shit that's not mine.  I have got to be taking on his karma somehow, and i guess it is because I love him, but this is not a conscious deal, in fact i have consciously tried to make a deal with Goddess for it to stop....unsuccessfully.
Now my husband is leaving me. and it is clear from his complaints that he is projecting his shit onto me, because I really can tell the difference between what I do and what I don't do.  I may be fucked up sometimes, but i know that i am, and see what I'm doing. I  am not a bad person and the fucked up things I sometimes do really arent that severe....  I also see what he is doing and projecting.  This makes me very sad, because I love him and don't want this to end for such a stupid reason.  But that's not up to me.  He is through.  I don't want to be peoples' mirror any more but it seems I have no choice.   They usually don't like what they see, and blame me.  "Victim" doesn't reflect how i feel in those situations....how could I feel victimized when  I clearly see people projecting?  Like the lady in the yoga class, she had no basis to judge, and I didn't feel victimized by her, but it is still unpleasant and very hurtful to me to have these interactions with people.
All this does not feel consensual.  I have suffered enough.  I need things to be peaceful for a little while, so I can regroup.  But I never get that chance.....I devote my life to sharing the practice of yoga with my students, I follow my own internal ethical and spiritual guidelines in my behaviors with others, and though  I am far from perfect i think I'm doing pretty well and have come a long way.  I'm tired of those around me who only see my flaws.
Yes, maybe this is goddess' way of clearing out my life for something better but  this struggle has been going on for so long, please bring on the something better some time soon, because procesaing all this crap is breaking me, and if i didn't have to do it I'd have a lot more energy to serve others which is what I really love to do.  I even feel like I might have to stop teaching, because i am so upset about my marriage ending I don't feel like I have anything left to give.  It is not wrong to want love and support, i am tired of feeling so alone.
I have a lawyer to deal with my mom....he can't stop her.....there is a lot people can do to abuse the legal system when they have infinite time and money, and that's what she does.  My dad too (they are divorced a long time).  Also my abusive asshole ex.  Last year I was sued or taken to court more than six times including by a tenant who BEGGED me to rent her the place and then later didn't like it, broke the lease without telling me, abandoned the house while i was on vacation in Hawaii, and claimed I pressured her into signing the lease!!!!  How many times did I take other people to court?  None.  Could I have?  You bet.  I even have a piece of paper that could send the abusive ex to jail.  Why don't I use it?  Because i do not want to engage with their violence.  Because that is my way of not creating this.  Because I do believe that practicing peace should stop violence.  In my case, this has not happened yet.
The funny thing is, all these people who are attacking me don't see that they are forcing me to evolve even more, and more rapidly.  Still, enough pain!
Yes, we do have a choice in how we react.  i think I do pretty well, but now i am reaching a point of being under the maximum amount of stress any person could possibly handle....of course my choices are not going to be as good.  What is the point of that, choices being made under maximum stress?  I have already survived september 11 living on canal street in manhattan for god's sake and this is way worse!!!
Sorry this is such a long post.  Thank you for the opportunity to speak and tell my story.  Honestly, this and k-list are the only places i feel like I can really speak openly and also the only places i feel like I "belong".  Please do write back, anyone who wants, I really enjoy to hear others' thoughts and have found all your comments very helpful, whether I agree or not.  Even comments that frustrate me, trigger me to think, and help me a lot. 
Namaste,
Jen

I think a lot of Juergens thoughts are very perceptive: to that I would add one more thing. In my experience I have run into a very few people whom I could sense were potential Shamans, and with a lifelong history of paranormal experiences but their Christian devotion kept it away.  Demon is external in that religion and Jesus stands guard.

  In my own early childhood, I learned prayers to Our Lord the Father for "no bad dreams" worked, and stopped the terrifying Shaman training dreams, but at the same time left me in a stuck place of getting a lot of victimization. Portal guardian fear reflections, I expect. I had stopped identifying as Christian long before Chacmool gave it a jump start.

  So... if you are a Shaman, where is your Shadow guide?  Did it ever occur to you that you might be projecting your shadow guide onto your mom?  You are dealing with a pooka made of your resistance to your mother, and that sort of resistance also tends to interfere with the connection to the Mother Goddess. 

  Set up a short term shield, I call it the "ugly mirror." Imagine the egg of your grounding with an inward reflecting mirror so all of your projections come right back at you, and take a good long look at yourself reflected in what you are projecting onto your mom. Don't wear it for more than a day or a few hours at a time, when you are prepared to be receptive and introspective, and forgiving and accepting of yourself... it is a powerful device.

  Jen, you are an energy vampire, and quite adept at sending a whammy, I might add. I addressed it and set boundaries for you early on, and you have respected them ... as you must for me to be an effective teacher for you. That it came up immediately to be addressed let me know it would be coming up again, the layers and some tough stuff too... and I said so.   

  What if, what you are really seeing is generations of daughters who have been cut off from their Goddess heritage, blaming their Moms and hexing them? Dumping their karma on them as a "not good enough" Mother Goddess surrogate, and by projecting the karma and shadow, actually forcing their Mothers into playing bad cop for them?

   When Matriarchy converts to Patriarchy, it is the mothers and aunts who train their daughters to reject their feminine power, out of love.  So the daughters won't be burnt as witches, or whatever is the cultural feminine equivalent. Whores... because the Goddess energy is catnip to men, and men blamed the woman  if they got a hard on, and rape was therefore the woman's own fault.

  Even today: Vancouver's shame... crack whores were being lured to the home of a pig farmer in surrey and he would torture then slaughter them and feed them to the pigs. 30 women disappeared over a period of years before prostitutes alliance embarrassed the powers that be to seriously investigate.  Streetwalkers are now given cell phones that only dial 911 emergency.  Some of the missing women turned out to be alive, the pig farmer is on trail for the 5 women they found evidence for.

  After all, we teach children to be afraid of things, to protect them and keep them safe. Be afraid to run across the street without looking, be afraid to touch a hot stove or wet your pants in school.

   So, the shadow power all gets subverted, into the women who carry the lineage becoming passive agressive monsters who cry victim to spew curses of blame at people because what is repressed comes up uglier.  Yup, I was one too, and my mom still is and won't change.  Love her, and better for some distance.
 
   Ya know, it doesn't matter that your heritage is lost, because it isn't, it is alive in you.

   There was no point to me learning the court rituals of a long vanished culture, let alone the Mayan language. I turned the Teacher, loose in my head, in my subconscious book worm life story of memories to find resonant mythos I could relate to and communicate them in a way my distractible ADD brain and large thick ego could hear.

  What I got, was Maya ascension mysteries via super-hero comic books, vampire novels, a large dose of King Arthur and an even bigger dose of science fiction fantasy.  Yet, scholars as varied as Glenn Morris and Kurt Keutzer tell me my stuff is all Tibetan in essence, and I've felt like a reincarnated witch or lost lama since I was a child. It never really motivated me to study Tibetan mysticism though. Teacher didn't appear that way. 

  I believe in reincarnation every second Tuesday, and on those days contemplate that lineage. There were thousands of Lamas in Tibet, 1/3 of the population was in the monastery: an effective population control and poorhouse in a country of limited resources. China came, and caused the diaspora and Tibet had not so much resources or motive to find them all... and bring them back, to what?  Lamas started being born outside of Tibet by necessity of the nature of the lineages. The DNA- marks of the witch on both sides of the family, mostly repressed by culture so it makes sense the choice of birth to have the tools required.   Always felt like a cuckoo in the nest... and also like some part of me, had been waiting to get loose of the strict structures of the hierarchical, celibate  system and shake some stuff as a hot redhead... but that may be the witch DNA of the body talking.  I have wondered if all Lamas are also Shamans.

  Anyway, my point is, what is yours will find you, you don't have to hunt or worry it is lost. You just have to love and accept your shadow demon stuff continuously so they   don't feel a need to make themselves known by messing up your life, and that will take the bricks from the wall. 

  Power and responsibility and intertwine, so when you give another responsibility for how you feel... you are at once making them be Goddess for you, and you are bombing them with your karma stuff which works out the same as a curse.   Re-read your first email with that in mind and see how you are hemorrhaging power, not because she is taking it but because you are resisting and feeding it with your attention, tweaking the drama and making it bigger.  Feels powerful to be able to get fired up and let go... but it gives a hangover. 

  No victims Jen. I'm thinking to make it a tea room rule. You can be God of your own life, or cling to your reasons why not... and if you want to cling and argue to keep them, do it elsewhere!  This is a Mystery school, not a PSTD clinic. If you want to let it go, we will support you. If you just want attention and to argue that you are right... well, you are not. Free will is Goddess law.

  Blessings...   

I have had my share of this too, first as a child from a protected environment in an extremely tough school where I was severely abused already at six and then as an exceptionally successful scientist at young age in an area where success is not allowed if you don't kiss the right asses long and hard enough, which I was too honest to do. Bullying and especially slander and false accusations from envious people followed when the people in charge made clear that it was okay to attack me.

Mostly, I have made myself unavailable for direct attacks, eg by working from home. And when the bullies stopped me in one area, I proceeded to another. I managed rather well, but my kundalini was pushing on my old bullying trauma from childhood, gave me stomach pains and eventually brought up a lot of suppressed stuff. If I ever felt like a "victim" (How can you feel like a victim? Victimhood is not a feeling but an intellectual construction we might du better without.) it was kundalini that forced me to. Most of my problems were actually related to my back, and if any of the yoga teachers and therapists I met would only have been smart enough to advice me to se a chiropractor, I don't think I would have had any severe problems at all. My symptoms were mainly physical. All my back burned with kundalini and aced, so that I could hardly walk and my head was kind of stuck in one position after my left shoulder had kind of exploded during a yoga exercise. Instead I was advised to proceed with physical yoga but restrain from meditation. When it was as worse I had to take benzo pills in low doses to keep the cramps away. It lasted for three months and afterwards my heart chakra opened and since then I have felt good most of the time.

The bullying is said to be a phase on the path to enlightenment, which will eventually stop. The intensity of the pain we feel is probably mostly dependent on the intensity and speed of the kundalini process. If we go through it rapidly it is most likely more painful. In kundalini yoga by Yogi Bajan there is a meditation which is said to be effective against bullying and other negative relationships. It's called the Kritan kriya or the Sa-Ta-Na-Ma-meditation. Maybe worth trying?

Quote from: Vyana on Aug 21, 2007, 02:02:16 AM
When a woman is just about to be murdered by a killer who attacked her in the park, she needs to think "What can I do to stop him?" not "Hmmm.... What old memories and suppressed emotions does this event bring up?"

   You are wrong about that, it is just another excuse for your defensiveness.

  I was bullied a lot, in school. One day when I was about eigght years old, a bully chased me into the coatroom, and there was deep snow outside so I was trapped there. He was coming for me and I had no escape but I prayed for help. The bully suddenly stopped, staring at me with a strange look, then turned around and ran away and never bothered me again. 

  Twenty years later, I ran into him and we had a chance to talk. I got the opportunity to ask him what he had experienced that day. He remembered it well.  He got a reflection. Looking at me, he suddenly saw that he was being exactly like his violent abusive Dad, and became deeply ashamed of himself, and ran away. Quite a transformative experience for him. Nothing that I, baby Shaman could have done myself, it came of my surrender and prayer.  Goddess did it.

  A friend asked for my blessings on his safety when he was travelling to California. I gave it, of course then never gave it another thought. When he got back he called to thank me for saving his life. He told me two stories. The first, he was walking down a dark street and he saw a gang coming for him, to rob or beat... then suddenly, they all got a terrified look as if there was a giant snake guarding him, and ran away.

  Another day, he was cycling, took a wrong turn and rolled into a box alley with a big truck coming for him, no where to go and he thought he was dead when the truck's axle broke with a bang and the truck stopped.

  Yes, defensiveness is a natural human reaction, that doesn't mean it is the correct one.


  Eileen wrote:
Anyone who has come into my life who is spiritually mature, has said the same thing:  You are not the victim.  YOU ARE CREATING IT.  

  That is the truth of it, and it is the path for both of you, Vyana and Jennifer if you want to get past this childish victimhood and attain spiritual maturity.  In the higher chakras victimhood cannot exist, and as above, so below. You can have enlightenment or your reasons why not, and if you prefer the reasons then why are you here?  You cannot be a victim, and ascend. 

  I moved this thread to the tea room from the temple because the temple is for surrender and offerings of poetry and inspiration, and this thread has not surrender, only reasons, justifiers and ego stuff from defending victimhood. I have not much tolerance for that. (Not meaning Eileen and Juergens contributions.)

  One day, I hope, both of you will get the insight that the shadow side of your victimhood is abusive, and that day may well be the most humiliating and ego-devastating experience of your life, and the greatest blessing, because only then will you really be ready to take your power back and become a genuinely gentle person. 

  Blessings... </i>

Quote from: Eileen on Aug 21, 2007, 05:13:55 AM

Mystress told in a post a while back of an instance where she fell into the icy (and deadly cold) waters of the sea.  She noticed her options (she can re-tell if she would like, so the details are correct) and chose an option.  And she lived.  She did not create being tossed into the deadly cold sea.  She created her response, and received an outcome as the result of it.

  Actually, yeah I did. Created it all.  Went in the sea because the little plastic dinghy was going to flip over if I didn't and I was concerned it might hit me in the head.  Was going to flip because I was trying to get out of it onto the sailboat and did not realize the sailboat was under power, druid intended to tow the dingy away from the rocks before taking me on board.  Lapse of communications.  So, yeah, I created it entirely. :)  Laughed at myself for hours after, well, that was sort of a hypothermia symptom but still damn funny.

   Blessings...

Well....I am an energy vampire?  That is pretty hard to swallow, but I know you wouldn't tell me something wrong....and i believe you.  Thank you for your honesty.  I had no idea on any level that I was doing anything like that, so obviously i don't know myself as well as I thought.  I'll have to go back and work on all this stuff a lot more.  I want to say, that my intention was not to stay in victimhood, compain, get sympathy whatever....and I apologize if I have in any way misused this forum.  I thought of it as a place where it would be okay to bring up all these issues, not to stay as a victim but with the intention of moving into a higher space.  Not trying to be argumentative, it's just that the idea that i was creating it didn't and doesn't make sense to me from where i sit now.  I'll take some time to understand more fully, and to explore the shadow more.  i am not claiming to be a shaman, I just wanted to explore this lineage I saw. Thank you very much for your time responding, I will end my part of this line of discussion now. sincerely,
Jennifer

Quote from: Jennifer on Aug 21, 2007, 09:12:33 AM
I gather from the website that mystress gets a fair amount of random attack too, for her views and opinions.  She's not creating that.  Other people are projecting.  She says it is a way of asking for love, and I see that too...asking for interaction....

  Ha ha, you want to use my stuff to validate your victimhood, he hee ha hooo haaa. No, no, no. Bad idea to try to go that road.

OF COURSE I AM CREATING IT!!!   It isn't random either.

   In the 90's I considered myself an activist for sexual freedom. I felt society had to change to please me, and oy the vicious aggressive emails I would get from total strangers! Then one day I hung up that hat, passed the torch.  I was seeing SM stuff everywhere from Calvin Klien to the Simpsons, the groundwork was done and momentum would carry the day. 

  The funny thing, I did not change the website, the shift was entirely internal... but the abusive emails slowed to a trickle and stopped.  Yeah, I totally was creating it.

  Still am, in other areas of my life.  I'm the one who put myself out there as healer teacher guide.

The injury in my back... the weak point behind my heart is caused by projections, people who have not the courage to face me and ask for my love, instead project what they want me to be for them, into the back of my heart chakra.  The spinal twist shows up on an X-ray.  Seems I even had an entity parked there to eat the stuff.  My weakness, poor boundaries, I am very vulnerable to becoming what people project onto me, so I resist the stuff instead of surrendering. 

   Part of it is, I don't let love from other people in.  I think it started in my childhood, I rejected my mother's love in favour of Mother Goddess in the earth.  Love in my family was such a mixed bag of projections and expectations manipulation and guilt tripping, and me so unbearably sensitive...  I guess on some level I felt I was better off without it.  I shunned conditional love as"not good enough" because I had a memory of what unconditional love felt like.  I still don't let other peoples love in, except those I am closest to. 

  My love is abundant, my cup runneth over.  I seldom even respond to the glowing thanks and testimonials people send me.  "Don't blame me, Goddess did it."  Flattery gets them no-where and on some level I guess people feel rejected and act out.

   Sometimes people consider the thanks or compliments as some kind of payment... you can see it a lot on K teacher board.  Versions of "I love your site thank you very much, and I have this problem..."  Buttering me up to get what they want.  (shrug)  I will give them what they ask for if I can, and if it is right to do, and Goddess pays me for it.

    It is more pleasant to work with complimentary respectful people than assholes, but I respect an honest and direct asshole more than a slippery manipulative flattering attention vampire.  I threw a narcissist off that board recently. O so polite and complimentary she was, and always the first to respond to my guest's posts, trying to make everything all about her... in the guise of being helpful, even when the people she was responding to, told her that her ideas about them were wrong. 

  I don't believe you are a Shaman, as I would define it... but you keep using that word for yourself so I'll surrender to that and treat you as if you are one.  Shamans don't get much in the way of free will, and just about every Shaman is also a karmic shit eater... and if you resist it will mess up your life.   It is similar for awakened people, we are the Fedex of surrender, Kali's waiters.  People give us stuff to deliver to Goddess for them, because they see Her in us and not in themselves.

  Why not absorb and process your husband's projections, and your mothers?  Why else do you think they give you their stuff?  Energy is energy.

  What happens if you take a punch at a Judo Master? He won't resist, instead he will use active surrender.  He or she will grab the fist and pull, redirecting the force so you are unbalanced and fall on your face. Then she will help you back to your feet quite pleasantly, with no hard feelings or diminished compassion. Resisting just gets you hit harder.

  I suggest, you take back all the stuff you have projected onto your Mom your whole life, and surrender it.  Stop the war, within yourself.   

   Blessings...   

Dear Mystress,

Now, I feel I need to get to the bottom of this. What I don't get is so to say what it is that I don't get – or how our understanding of what is actually happening differs. Therefore I have some questions:

1. What is the difference between my belief that I recreate my whole universe several times each second on bases of our mostly subconscious expectations and your belief that we are responsible for what is happening to us? Is the difference conceptual or emotional or related to the awareness of the details of the subconscious process creating the expectations?

2. Is it possible to access the underlying suppressed emotions and thus get rid of the problem by some other method than internalizing the concept of "victim" and then realizing that you are not a "victim"? Do you know if this is dealt with under some other concept or with some other technique in some tradition? (To me it appears as if an inadequate behaviour would more or less automatically disappear when the underlying suppressed emotions are released, without such insights having to come first.)

One funny thing: This summer I had a so-called aura chakra photo made. I did it mostly for fun, but the result still was amazingly adequate in some respects (this was also true about the similar photo that was taken on my daughter). I was told the photo showed that my aura and chakras were in excellent shape (as was my daughters). Maybe they say this to everybody. Most chakras were rather big and had the adequate colours. The exceptions were the two chakras where I was working with stuff. The trout chakra was somewhat smaller and dark blue instead of light blue. The power chakra was yellow as it should and somewhat smaller than the trout chakra, still the size was diagnosed as normal and adequate. In my aura the orange colour of creativity was predominant and I was described as adventurous, analytical, scientific and self-confident. The aura also showed that the energy I received from other people was good and that the energy that I eradiated to other people was strongly positive and even had a healing quality. I don't know how much to believe in this, but at least there was no sign of a severe power chakra trauma.

Kind regards

Vyana

Quote from: Jennifer on Aug 21, 2007, 11:43:29 AMI want to say, that my intention was not to stay in victimhood, compain, get sympathy whatever....and I apologize if I have in any way misused this forum.  I thought of it as a place where it would be okay to bring up all these issues, not to stay as a victim but with the intention of moving into a higher space.  Not trying to be argumentative, it's just that the idea that i was creating it didn't and doesn't make sense to me from where i sit now. 

  Thank you for being receptive.  I'm sorry if I was hard on you, but re-read the thread, with an eye to where you were defending your victimhood and arguing in favour of your helplessness and you will get insights. Re-read it with the mirror, what if everything you say about other people is all about you?

 The road to hell is paved with good intentions, eh? Results show the truth. If you were really done with victim stuff, you would not still be experiencing being victimized.  QED.

  When you are in victimhood, personal responsibilty does not make sense, that is part and parcel of how the attachment blinds you, keeps you stuck in the power chakra unable to rise above it and see a higher truth.  

  You have to stop believing it, set it all aside to get insights.  You have to take a leap of faith, believe in your Divine Power, apply surrender to get empowering results, ... and as you already know, it is a challenging discipline.   It is only when you accept your power, ("It is my own creation") that you get the insights that tell you were it came from, what karmic fragment or limiting belief is coming up to be released.

 I don't care if the thread continues or not... but I do care very much, about people seeking to validate or defend victimhood in this space: it is a no-go.   It is resisting Kundalini... a totally bad and dangerous thing to do!!!  Especially here. This space is shakti charged.  

 The thing about the "poor me" passive aggressive vampire control strategy, is you never really do outgrow it, if it is a part of you once then it will come up again and again, layers of it, and especially when your energy is low.

   It is like how they say, an alcoholic is always an alcoholic even if they have not had a drink in a decade.  The addictive potential remains and so the discipline must also continue, with lifelong vigilance.  It gets easier over time, but the physical predisposition remains.  You simply cannot affoard the arrogance to say, "I dealt with it before so this must be something else"  or, "I have not had a drink in a year so I must be cured". One sip and you feed the monster, growing it large again.

  I still watch for victimhood in myself, and I still find more layers of it on a regular basis... but, at this point I have to really, really have a fall from grace to believe my own victim BS.  Even so... it happens!! :)  We are like trees, we never stop growing until we die.  

  Blessings...    

 Vyana wrote:

1. What is the difference between my belief that I recreate my whole universe several times each second on bases of our mostly subconscious expectations and your belief that we are responsible for what is happening to us? Is the difference conceptual or emotional or related to the awareness of the details of the subconscious process creating the expectations?

 No significant difference, except your version makes you a victim of your karmic predispositions... you blame the stuff.  You don't really take responsibility. Karma, power and responsibility are intertwined.  If you really want to get your power back, you have to take responsibility for all the thoughts and decisions that led to the karma stuff being created.

2. Is it possible to access the underlying suppressed emotions and thus get rid of the problem by some other method than internalizing the concept of "victim" and then realizing that you are not a "victim"? Do you know if this is dealt with under some other concept or with some other technique in some tradition? (To me it appears as if an inadequate behaviour would more or less automatically disappear when the underlying suppressed emotions are released, without such insights having to come first.)


  I told you already, many times, and you didn't like it.   

Dear Mystress,
Don't be sorry for being hard on me.  I appreciate it.  That was a very loving thing to do, just not easy (not at ALL easy) for me to hear or accept.  Now I reread the posts and I do start to see it.  After being in victim mode for so long and having so many experiences of being victimized, I couldn't hear that I was creating it....had to get slapped on the head for it to sink in.  So, thank you.  Now I have a lot to work on, and I know how to work.  And thanks to everyone else who posted, I wasn't intending to argue with you, I was just in the dark, unable to believe, and frustrated.  Sorry.
I just want to say, I think I mentioned in an earlier post that I do not consider myself a shaman either, and thought I was just talking about shamanic issues, but did not realize that could be interpreted as calling myself one....if that's how it read, it was a miscommunication on my part...
.I was more just wondering if shamanic training was something I could / should explore but then saw like you say, goddess will give it to me if i need it without trying.   That's really not the kind of life I want, anyway....I am happy just being a yoga teacher.
Also, I wasn't aware of what the different rooms on this board are for, I should have read the instructions.  Next time I will post in the proper place. Thank you.
Jennifer

Please Goddess, take this and all that is connected to it. Take it in top-down fashion from point fo origin and please take the holes too! This stuff is all yours! Thank you very much!

Oh, why is this so difficult? This course must have been created by a sadist finding pleasure in others suffering! Sometimes I wonder if the same is true about the whole universe... Ooops! I shouldn't have said that! What does that revile about me? I created it – the universe I mean, not this course... Ooops again! It is of course part of the universe I created. So here I am; paying for a course I created my self and finding myself unable to understand it!

>>1. What is the difference between my belief that I recreate my whole universe several times each second on bases of my mostly subconscious expectations and your belief that we are responsible for what is happening to us? Is the difference conceptual or emotional or related to the awareness of the details of the subconscious process creating the expectations?  

No significant difference, except your version makes you a victim of your karmic predispositions... you blame the stuff.  You don't really take responsibility. Karma, power and responsibility are intertwined.  If you really want to get your power back, you have to take responsibility for all the thoughts and decisions that led to the karma stuff being created.

- Still, as the stuff is recreated several times each second too, isn't this exactly what I do, at least formally? The thoughts and decisions that led to the karma stuff being created in the first place are difficult to access consciously in detail, as they are from my early childhood, but I work on processing this stuff with yogic methods. When it comes to "blame", that is not a concept I use. It is a construction, like "victim hood". What I perceive is upcoming feelings of being hurt etc. Then I do perceive people hurting others as mean and feel sorry for them and when I am hurt I also feel responsible and somewhat frustrated for being unable to heal them or whatever is needed to solve their problem. "It is still a monster, even if it is of my creation", I suppose. But the heart chakra energy rather soon comes into this and dissolves it in love and acceptance. So if I am to make generalisations or create concept, I would take them from here. As I wrote before: "God loves all – with no exceptions – unconditionally.", "The world is a big play-ground where we are always perfectly safe and are supposed to enjoy ourselves and have fun." or "There is love at the bottom of everything." The heart is predominant most of the time, so I am at least not stuck in this:

"When you are in victimhood, personal responsibility does not make sense, that is part and parcel of how the attachment blinds you, keeps you stuck in the power chakra unable to rise above it and see a higher truth."

But maybe taking rescue in the heart, or calling for the heart to solve the problem, is a way of avoiding to deal with the underlying problem, which is at the power chakra level. It is also a way to avoid the personal responsibility issue. Cleaning out the lower chakras IS crucial. This is what we most of all need to do. So I suppose I need to integrate the power chakra solution for this too.

You say my view makes me a victim of my karmic predispositions. I certainly don't want to be that! But is not this same belief somehow at the bottom of all yogic teachings? If we were not – at least momentarily, and yes time doesn't really exist... – the victims of our karma, why would we have to use all these sophisticated techniques to clear it? Doesn't it come with the yogic package, so to say? (As the alcoholics; first you must accept that you are addicted/victimized by karma, and then you can be cured.) And is not the following also a way of saying that we are the victims or the karma:

"The thing about the 'poor me' passive aggressive vampire control strategy, is you never really do outgrow it, if it is a part of you once then it will come up again and again, layers of it, and especially when your energy is low.

    It is like how they say, an alcoholic is always an alcoholic even if they have not had a drink in a decade.  The addictive potential remains and so the discipline must also continue, with lifelong vigilance.  It gets easier over time, but the physical predisposition remains.  You simply cannot afford the arrogance to say, 'I dealt with it before so this must be something else' or, 'I have not had a drink in a year so I must be cured'. One sip and you feed the monster, growing it large again.

   I still watch for victimhood in myself, and I still find more layers of it on a regular basis... but, at this point I have to really, really have a fall from grace to believe my own victim BS.  Even so... it happens!!   We are like trees, we never stop growing until we die."

To me it seems that you don't only accept, just as I do, that the karma is there and has to be dealt with. You even go a step further and claim that we cannot get rid of it as long as we live.
What makes this stuff so significant & persistent? Is it the problem of surrendering to divine will contra individual will or what? Why cannot it be cleared out as other stuff? Isn't there karma that can be cleansed out at the bottom of this "karmic reappearance" too, as it is when other karmic stuff comes back? And if so, why cannot we go directly for the underlying stuff instead? And is this persistent nature of this karma way we need a different attitude to it?

Creating the whole universe? Being the God of my own life? To good to be true? But Wow if it works! If I could just change a little bit (we don't want any earthquakes or anything like that) I might attract women to give me all the pleasure I desire and men to pay me all the money I need. But what would my wife say about that? The women I mean; the money she would most likely spend. I suppose my problem is I am just not mature enough for all that responsibility?

Well, at least energy is moving in my power chakra when I write this...

Please Goddess, take this and all that is connected to it. Take it in top-down fashion from point to origin and please take the holes too! This stuff is all yours! Thank you very much!

Please Goddess, take this and all that is connected to it. Take it in top-down fashion from point fo origin and please take the holes too! This stuff is all yours! Thank you very much!

Oh, why is this so difficult? This course must have been created by a sadist finding pleasure in others suffering!

   Heh, funny.  Carl Jung said "There is no coming to consciousness, without pain" so Goddess trained me as a Domina... and so I could deliver loving slaps to the heads of people who ask for it... ;)

  Very good, keep surrendering but that is not the part you did not like. You rejected the idea that every victim is also an abuser.  That ugly mirror is the key.

Then I do perceive people hurting others as mean and feel sorry for them and when I am hurt I also feel responsible and somewhat frustrated for being unable to heal them or whatever is needed to solve their problem. "It is still a monster, even if it is of my creation", I suppose. But the heart chakra energy rather soon comes into this and dissolves it in love and acceptance.

  What if, they are not mean and wounded and damaged? What if that is just your defensive pedestal? You feel sorry for them, aaaaahhh... pity is a pedestal of separation, and it is only very distantly related to compassion.  You negatively judge people whom you feel have harmed you, fine. That is natural. Where you fall down is in refusing to turn the judgements around and apply them to yourself.  Continuing to think that your hurt, is about them... which on some unconscious level, makes you believe you are fit to judge them. To the victim gets the sword of righteous judgement and it is a terrible weapon to wield.  This is a human defense pattern, and it is abusive.  Victims, are abusive.  All of them.  As with alcoholics, they cannot get better until they can face that awful truth.

    What you see, is your self reflected tra la la.  You know how the song goes and intellectualize many interpretations instead of simply taking it at face value.  What if they are not monsters, but Goddess working through other people to show you a reflection of you the bent one?

    I'm working on a comedy routine about frog princes.  You know, in the fairy tale the frog says "An evil witch turned me into a frog, but I am really a rich prince! Kiss me."  The stupid princess never thinks to ask "What did you do to piss her off?" It would likely inform the decision about whether to kiss the slimy thing.  In Fairy tales, apparently turning princes into frogs is a hobby of Witches, or perhaps a competetive sport?
   How do you apologise to a witch? Ribbit...


To me it seems that you don't only accept, just as I do, that the karma is there and has to be dealt with. You even go a step further and claim that we cannot get rid of it as long as we live.
What makes this stuff so significant & persistent? Is it the problem of surrendering to divine will contra individual will or what? Why cannot it be cleared out as other stuff? Isn't there karma that can be cleansed out at the bottom of this "karmic reappearance" too, as it is when other karmic stuff comes back? And if so, why cannot we go directly for the underlying stuff instead? And is this persistent nature of this karma way we need a different attitude to it?



   Well, you have asked a question that would require a book...

  What does enlightenment, mean to you?  Some people think it means becoming an eternally joyful valium  robot, but I have yet to meet one. We are like trees, we don't stop growing until we die. 

   In my work, as you may have noticed, I raise people to a higher vibration so they can get insights that were not accessable to their regular selves. The clearer your energy body becomes and the more mindful you get about energy hygiene the easier it is to keep your personal energy well topped up and your connection to Source and Divine guidance clear.  Surf the high tide.  Along the way,  "know thyself" you also get insights into your predispositions, your strong and weak points and adjust.

  Power games of the power chakra;  between people are a struggle for life force.  When the tide is high the rocks are hidden. On a low energy day they show their barnacles to ya.  Nature/nurture, childhood experiences affect how someone grows, from the shape of their bones to the wrinkles in their brain... and how much of that will K change?  How much, do you want it to?  People are afraid of change. 

  The tide wears away at the beach, the water gets deeper as the rocks erode but there will always be rocks down there someplace, and barnacles.  More room for growing. :)

   You have to trust, that you chose the parents and formative experiences to shape you as Goddess willed... there are gifts in the shadows.

    Enlightened people are not all the same; some apects of personality are a part of you, and remain.  Kundalini makes you ever more fully yourself, and when your energy gets low enough, your body falls back on whatever power games worked in childhood, even if they really did not work.  Blessings...

Please Goddess, take this stuff and all that is related to it. Take it in top down fashion from point of origin and please take the holes too. It is all yours! Thank you very much!

"You rejected the idea that every victim is also an abuser."

- Still, this is a rather special statement. Most of your teachings are in accordance with what I already knew. Or they are natural consequences derived from that. Or they immediately resonate at true. But this doesn't. Why?

In general terms your statement is at odds with so much of what in principle all people think they know. This is especially true when considering the over all situation in the world of today. And what would the practical consequences be, if this was accepted as a general truth? Should we treat all the victims of severe crimes as potential perpetrators themselves?

Was it Strindberg who wrote something about Irish (or was it Scottish?) husbands throwing burning kerosene lamps at their wives? Anyway, somebody complained to the author about "those horrible men", but the author answered "How horrible wives, making their husbands do such things!" Maybe, when there is an intimate relationship between the perpetrator and his victim, it might not always be possible to say who is the real perpetrator and who is the real victim. But even if that is true, a man just cannot throw a burning kerosene lamp at his wife. It is a terrible thing to do! And in most cases, there is no such relationship.

In the TV sofa:
"Darling! Watch this! It's terrible! The soldiers are killing the civilians!!"
"Don't bother! The fact that they are killed by those evil beasts shows that they are equally evil beasts and potential murderers themselves. So I suppose they just get what they deserve. You see, especially in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, there were really a lot of evil beasts who deserved to be killed. Not to speak about the Jews of course! Boy, did they get what they deserved?"

At work:
"I just heard Tom was raped by another man! Isn't it horrible?"
"It only proves he is a potential rapist himself. Of course, we can't have a rapist working here. So I fired him as soon as I heard of it."

In court:
"It doesn't matter that you never ever committed any crime, I am still putting you away for the rest of your life. The fact that you was almost killed by one of the most ruthless killers ever is evidence enough that you are as bad as he is, and therefore you will both have to suffer the same punishment. In our court the victim is always sentenced to the same punishment as the perpetrator."

When applying this to myself, it doesn't ring any bell either. So, I would be able to do what each one of those bullies did? So what? That's no big deal. I never considered myself better than them. The girl making up the story that I tried to seduce her is a little bit more tricky, but mostly because I have some problems thinking of a situation where I would make something like that up. But if I was in her situation and influenced by the same factors as she, who knows? Anyway this doesn't feel emotionally loaded. The emotionally loaded stuff in this is rather that these bastards keep me from getting what I want and have a generally negative influence on my life situation. They are stopping me from being as happy as I want to and from having fun as I want to. The school bullies are still somewhat further away. I don't know exactly what they did or how aware they were of what they did. From experience I know I never did such things and I cannot think of a situation where I would. But they were just kids, and as a kid I might, still under the same circumstances and affected by the same factors, have become a different person. Then I might have done such things.

The immediate reaction to an outrage is more interesting. When I was in school we were  now and then told about the man who was humiliated by his boss at work, who then took it out on his wife, who in her turn barked at the child, who pulled the dogs tail with the effect that the dog started chasing the cat, or something like that. You pass it away, so to say, and then you forget about it. It's out of your system and the next minute, you are friends. Other people prefer to get back at the ones who "stabbed them" instead. And some people just get angry and bark a lot about those who hurt them. They might even get furious, throwing furniture around them. But when they are finished, they forget about it and the next day they are friends.

Some people don't react like this. I am one of them. Acting out aggressively is just not something we normally do. It's not a normal pattern of behaviour for us. Maybe we explode a little bit now and then instead, when enough is enough so to say. Because somehow the anger stay inside, and this might make us "passively aggressive".

Just the other day I visited a supermarket. There was a young girl with her boy friend. The girl was not exceptionally good-looking, but for some reason I perceived her as exceptionally sexy. It was as if the air was somehow thick around her. She was very quiet, as if she was really shy and hardly dared to speak. Her body language was in accordance with this. Her boyfriend was really funny to watch. He was tall, had long hair, wore leather jacked and looked like a really tough guy. Still he appeared to be close to a nervous breakdown. He was kind of leaping around this little girl, babbling like an extremely nervous old lady and apparently extremely anxious to please her. My interpretation was that she was angry with him and passively aggressive and that her strategy was very effective as it made him so extremely nervous and anxious to please her.

This strategy is interesting in relation to bullying, because in my experience many bullied people are normally very gentle. They don't react aggressively in any of the ways I just described. Instead they tend to turn inwards, just as I do, and feel guilty – at least in my case mostly because I feel as if the fact that this person does this to me is somehow a proof that there is something wrong with me and maybe partly also because I get angry and feel like doing things I just cannot allow myself to do, because I do not perceive myself as that kind of a person.

So, the bullied person is not openly aggressive and thus doesn't get his/her system cleared of the stressful impact of the outrage etc. This probably affects the system on a more long term basis in an extremely severe way. Bullying research says that 5 % kill themselves, 5 % kill their perpetrators or other people and the rest are normally wounded for life. They get PTSD and severe physical diseases and die young.

The most interesting thing is what happens in the mind and energy system as an immediate response to bullying. I think I somehow make a decision to hold an attitude of disliking this person in the future and create some kind of energy knot to support this decision. Sometimes I might, like the girl at the supermarket, decide to treat the person rather strictly and keep up a serious face for a shorter or longer while. But in bullying situations it is more like as if I decided to get back at this person later. But I never do, because that would be equally inconsistent with who I am as getting back at him immediately. Somehow I hold the attitude of disliking and this affects my energy system and creates or adds to a blockage. This, I think, might be the bottom and cause of my bullying trauma. But I suppose, it is still not exactly what you suggested?

I have to add that bullied people normally don't become aware that they are bullied until it is too late and they are just about to get fired. All the lies and slanders build up behind their back until the idea that the have done a lot of terrible things is some firmly established that it cannot be questioned, even if there is exactly no evidence to support it. So, I suppose what I described cannot normally happen in a case of bullying, if it does not take place at a subconscious level.

Please Goddess, take this stuff and all that is related to it. Take it in top down fashion from point of origin and please take the holes too. It is all yours! Thank you very much!

Dear Mystress,
Wow.  I am blown away by what is happening.  As soon as I took your words into myself, began to see how I was self-victimizing, projecting and demonizing my mother, everything changed immediately.  My mother suddenly dropped her latest lawsuit that was to come to trial in October.  I received news of a bunch of money coming to me tomorrow, unexpectedly.  And my husband started acting completely different and stopped talking about divorce.  This is powerful stuff.  It didn't feel good to hear the truth, but what a blessing it was and now my whole being is shifting.  Thank you so much for your patience to guide me out of this pit.  And thank you, goddess.  I just have one question now.  I didn't realize it was part of my role as an awakened person to process the karma & stuff of others.  I will gladly do that service.  Are there any techniques that I can use to assist this?  My understanding of surrender is that you cant surrender what is not yours, does that apply here? 
Thank you also for telling me that victim mentality is an addiction.  I will stay vigilant about it in the future...but I still have a lot of work to do on it right now also!  It will be interesting to see what happens.
namaste,
Jennifer

Quote from: Vyana on Aug 23, 2007, 02:04:29 AM

"You rejected the idea that every victim is also an abuser."

- Still, this is a rather special statement. Most of your teachings are in accordance with what I already knew. Or they are natural consequences derived from that. Or they immediately resonate at true. But this doesn't. Why?

This entire thread is full of so many powerful lessons!  I am so grateful for it.  When I have time I want to continue with the matriarch/patriarch stuff on another thread because I have so many layers yet to address, and this discussion has taken it way beyond the lesson itself.  I certainly will be spending plenty of time looking at the way I've projected certain things onto the various women in my life, including my mother.  Jennifer, you are not the only one who's got to look at these things...I need it too!  Wonderful this discussion is happening!

Anyway, Vyana:  I sooooooo see myself in your responses!  Although I've changed quite a bit and understand the perspective from a bit of a different angle now.  Trust me though, there are lots of layers and we really do have to keep at it!

What I thought to offer though is this.  Maybe try these things on and see if they are helpful for you.  If not, then try a different route.  As my mind used to be almost entirely linear, it's easy to see how difficult understanding some concepts can be. 

When we are under the care of a teacher and they give us a bit of information that is really really tough to understand, it can be helpful to just put it into a place in our mind and hold it respectfully, and say to ourselves:  "Wow, I have no idea how this could be true, or apply to me, but I'm just going to trust that it is possible and I'm going to keep moving forward as if I believe it's true, until I see how it applies."  You speak of accessing the subconscious mind.  Well, this is a great way to do it.  This is why I suggest saying things out loud.  That adds emphasis and sort of prompts our subconscious to get to work on it.  The listening makes way for the answers to drop in at the correct time.  That act in itself is huge surrender.  Making room for things to be possible - even if we don't see how....is surrender.

And something else that helped me to understand the concept of "we create our reality":  When the concept of taking responsible for my creations appeared I fought it with a vengance.  I certainly didn't want to feel guilty for all the stuff I've created, and I didn't want to be responsible for causing people to dislike or hurt me, etc. - or to admit that I was the abuser!   What helped me to see how I create my reality (literally) was to start doing it deliberately.  First I did the above (make room for it to be possible) which is surrender it, and then I started to notice my thoughts, cultivate that relationship with my subconscious mind, and deliberately think about the things that I wanted in my life.  At first it is a lot of work to keep an eye on our thoughts.  It's amazing to see what our mind is doing if we're just letting it run!  yikes!  But in a short time, life started to change dramatically!  I began to literally see the results of my deliberate creations.  It was through that that I learned the powerful lesson of how we do very much create our reality.  In fact, it kind of freaked me out how very literally we do.  It's been very sobering, and also very rewarding.  Just like Jennifer did as she mentioned in her post above.  She just did the same thing!  And life changed quickly!  Taking responsiblility isn't all bad...in fact, it's freedom!

Because of this whole matriarchy/patriarchy thing and maybe because I have always had so much masculine energy about myself all my life, I have tended toward the square, linear thinking.  Intelectualizing everything.  I've changed a lot of it, because sometimes you just need to soften up and trust.  But it does help at times when it comes to working with certain things.  My goal is to balance the linear with the curvy so to speak.  But, for me at least, learning to understand things has meant (in many cases) that I have to sort of swing around and use that intellectual approach, like you are doing.  But as with most everything in the universe, it still requires an element of the curvy, feminine...which is to just trust that it's possible.  Because, really, anything is possible.

Also, there is a technique out there that is very powerful and fun, called PSYCH-K, that makes quick, easy work of re-programming the subconscious mind.  You can take a workshop and learn it, or just see a practitioner.  Uses some NLP but is a technique of its own.  I learned it and use it in my practice, and it's truly a god-send!  Ultimately, no matter what techniques we use for personal improvement, we still have to take full responsibility and do lots and lots of 'manual labor' when it comes to growth.  We still have to eat our monsters. 

And on that note I'm reminded that I want to also continue in a thread some more about keeping our energy clean.  Mystress, you've brought this up repeatedly and I feel I need lots of work on this.  I see my intellectual mind hindering this one a bit.  Always the need for new thread!

Who was it that mentioned the 'chop wood, carry water?' 
Well, back to it!
Blessings!
eileen

  Vyana wrote:

- Still, this is a rather special statement. Most of your teachings are in accordance with what I already knew. Or they are natural consequences derived from that. Or they immediately resonate at true. But this doesn't. Why?

  Denial. Aggressive denial.   Never met a poor me-interrogator-intimidator before! 

  You are an intellectual bully, and you take a whack at me every time this topic comes up.  How many many posts have there been over the years, your excuses and defenses and intellectual arguments, projections, trying to get me to change my mind about what I know to be true?

  Way too many.   I'm really tired of it, stopped responding, waste of breath and energy.  With this one, you are really trying to humiliate me with your examples and make my teachings appear foolish.  It is insulting.  You think you are not aggressive?
   HAHAHAHAAAAAHOOOH hee hee

  Why do you think I did not want to get into this with you again?  I've explained it to you a hundred times and you don't get it because you don't want to get it.  I can barely even read your response, the energy of it all defensive projections, excuses, justifications is like being slapped in the face repeatedly.

    Last time I asked the students to support you by giving you feedback on the energy of your posts, and you bullied them too! Browbeat them with your defensiveness.  You tried to bully Eileen in this thread, but she placated your barbs with humility... took responsibility, and did the spiritual equivalent of backing away with her hands in the air.   You had a counsellor who tried to help you, you browbeat her into silence with these same arguments.

  So, you are good at that. Bravo... personally, being good at a nasty power game is not something to take pride in... and you are proud of it. Especially proud of out-talking the counsellor.   

  Argue for your limitations, you can keep them!  Fill yer boots!  I am instituting a new Tea room rule, and you are the reason for it: "No victims."

  Ya know, I don't give a damn what the "real world" thinks about my statement. I don't apply it there, I apply it to myself and my students. It is meant to be applied internally for the purposes of growth, not projected except for the dynamic of teaching about it. Applying it externally is bullying.

   In the "real world" I'm suing an insurance company for my car accident because being rear ended was not my fault, and that is how the legal rules work. In the spiritual, I completely accept that the accident was my own creation, and it and the lawsuit are a gift of Goddess to support me in re-habilitating a body damaged by too much computer.  It is all perfection. Goddess provides.  

   I thought Jennifer was going to be difficult, but she surprised and delighted me. She applied the stuff, took the leap of faith and reaped the rewards.  Yet here you are, years later still arguing with me instead.  Grow the fuck up!!  Victimhood is spiritual immaturity, it is childish and this course is not for babies.


    Waaaahhh mommy the bad boys hurt me, they are mean and damaged.

    No Johnny, the other boys are mean to you because you use your big brain to humiliate people and make them feel like idiots and that is not nice.  They are mean because like most intelligent geeks you haven't good social skills, you do not play well with others.  They are mean because you place yourself on a pedestal of moral and intellectual superiority and standing on other people's heads to feel better about yourself is not nice.  They are mean because one way to detect a passive aggressive person is how they make you angry...  most people are not skilled enough to figure out why this "nice" person inspires anger and loathing in them. They only know their feelings, and they will act on their feelings even if they have to invent a reason why. 

   Your experience of being bullied is completely self created. You even make me want to beat on you, ... and not in a fun, SM kind of way.   

   Hey shall we take a poll? How many people felt Vyana was trying to make me look foolish to feel better about himself?

  No, lets go farther back... how many would be afraid to respond to such a poll for fear Vyana will make you the next target of his defensive humiliation game of intellectual bullying? 

  Now sit back and watch the show. How much poor me aggressive defensiveness do I get from you this time?  Boring, predictable, sad.

  Yeah, I sometimes wonder why you are still here, too. 

  PS: hey, I re-read both posts and found some more to rant about! :) :)


Bullying research says that 5 % kill themselves, 5 % kill their perpetrators or other people and the rest are normally wounded for life.

  Your statement makes me laugh. What others may do to them cannot possibly be as bad as what they do to themselves eh?  and others, if they go Columbine and start shooting?  Still think victims  are gentle people? LOL!! 

   I think I was 5 years old, really angry at my mom, I had a thought to kill myself, then she would be sorry!!!  It lasted a millisecond before the sheer stupidity of the idea snapped me out of it.


   

Jennifer wrote:  Also, I wasn't aware of what the different rooms on this board are for, I should have read the instructions.  Next time I will post in the proper place. Thank you.

  No where do I explain it. Left it as a little esp test, LOL. Was curious what people would do with the various rooms without direction.

    The temple is for surrender and spiritual offerings of poetry or inspirational prose, sharing, like Edwards last post. The tea room is more for general discussion, argument and wrangles.  The tech room is for tech questions like why some vids don't work, and test posts.  The time room is for the archives.

   PS: to people who are having trouble with the quote feature.  I've been modifying posts that show up hard to read.  Rather than using the quote button, it is easier to copy and paste the stuff you want to quote, then select it to change the colour and type in the authors name by hand. The preview button is to look at your message format before posting and tweak it. Remember to identify my quotes with italics.

Jennifer wrote:   I just have one question now.  I didn't realize it was part of my role as an awakened person to process the karma & stuff of others.  I will gladly do that service.  Are there any techniques that I can use to assist this?  My understanding of surrender is that you cant surrender what is not yours, does that apply here?  

I mention it when it comes up, not too often because I discourage hero trips.  It is not part of the role... is there a role? Nobody told me, heh.  More like, a common Kundalini phenomena that it is useful to know how to deal with, and to know not take it personally.  Strangers approaching you for some flimsy reason, just wanting your attention,  or a waitress deciding to tell you her problems while pouring your coffee.  It happens, people give you their stuff, with words or actions, and the stuff is not yours to keep, but to surrender.  It is something people do, like we say, "A burden shared is a burden lightened."  

 No, you cannot surrender what is not yours, but when people give you stuff for delivery, it is different.  Everybody gets a little of that Boddhisattva gig.  Don't go looking for it, unless you want to be attracting a lot of troubled people into your life.  Don't take it personally (like, I must be looking extra pretty today to get this attention.)  but don't get self conscious and turn into a hermit, either.   They usually won't know why they are approaching you, their DB will shape their perceptions and give their ego  some bullshit excuse why it is ok... but, Namaste, Goddess does it.  

 When it happens, just be polite.  Give the person a few seconds or moments of your attention, Goddess does the rest.  Goddess looks out through your eyes whether you feel Her or not...  Energy follows attention, and that is what they want, and a few seconds or a moment is often enough.  

   Surrender whatever you feel incoming from them, if anything... for me it is usually seamless, because I know not to take it personally. I don't let ego take credit, responsibility belongs to Goddess.

  Blessings.  
 

Well, thank you for those insights. My intention was definitely not the one you read into it, at least not consiously, but only to surrender some of the obstacles that come up when I try to integrate your belief into my belief system. I will try to integrate what you wrote here, but I will seek other ways to deal with this issue in the future.

Vyana,
Speaking from personal experience this stuff is really hard to hear and take in.  I fought it too.  But, it is 100% true.  And when I took it in, I felt really bad and guilty about what I had done to myself and others.  The only way to absorb this information is to make a leap of faith. JUST DO IT!!!!  You will be amazed at the results.  And once you've made that leap, forgive yourself for what you've done.  Just know that for whatever reason, you didn't know any better than to do what you did.  Now you know better, so there's really no excuse any more....have courage!
namaste,
Jen

Quote from: Vyana on Aug 24, 2007, 02:36:23 AM
Well, thank you for those insights. My intention was definitely not the one you read into it, at least not consiously, but only to surrender some of the obstacles that come up when I try to integrate your belief into my belief system. I will try to integrate what you wrote here, but I will seek other ways to deal with this issue in the future.

  Make me wrong, then go aloof. Watch your patterns!

May I drastically simplify?

I've spent time with the various aspects of this entire thread because, not only can I recognize the many reflections of my self, but they've been rather loudly amplified in my external as well.  Life has been like that lately:  The fragments of me that need integrated have been showing up as extremes in my world.  In clients, in passers by, in everything.  Stuff sticks out because it's exihibiting in the extreme (for me personally).  It's as if I've been on this treasure hunt (which was a GREAT analogy given in previous posts of a differnt thread) and as I'm getting closer to the goal, the clues are literally jumping up all around, begging to be noticed.  Very kewl.

So, why is it that (I) feel the need to make a difference in anything? 
Why the need to change the way someone sees or does or IS something?
Why get irritated at stuff?  Especially what others do or how they behave or think?
Why the need to feel like i know stuff?  Or have the right answers?  Or argue?  Or defend?

What's up with all that?

So I asked.  And listened. 

Acceptance.  Period.  And damn if that's not a power chakra issue.  Which would explain why I had years of digestive issues and pain.  Which I learned to get a handle on by improving elimination - on all levels.  But elimination (flow) is only part of the cure. 

The cure is acceptance.  Total acceptance. 

Of me.  You.  All.  Everything.

Transactional Analysis puts it this way:  "I'm okay, You're okay."

All is okay.  There's no problem.  None. 

It's not even about release.  Except for release of the need to control.

I've learned over recent months that EVERYTHING in the Universe happens EFFORTLESSLY.  Birth, death, creation, destruction....and everything stays in constant motion.  Effortlessly.  Therefore life is, by design, effortless, and requires nothing of us except that we flow with it.  And enjoy.

And so one could say that all we have to do then, is to dream life.  Not control it.  Just, simply, happily....dream it.

It's the out-breath.

Everything is hidden in plain sight.
Simple.
Blessings!
Eileen

Eileen wrote:  When I have time I want to continue with the matriarch/patriarch stuff on another thread because I have so many layers yet to address, and this discussion has taken it way beyond the lesson itself.

 You can understand why I wouldn't put it into the very first lesson... too much information.

Eileen wrote:  Acceptance.  Period.  And damn if that's not a power chakra issue.  Which would explain why I had years of digestive issues and pain.  Which I learned to get a handle on by improving elimination - on all levels.  But elimination (flow) is only part of the cure. 

The cure is acceptance.  Total acceptance. 

Of me.  You.  All.  Everything.


  Yup!  You pegged it.  It is all about love and acceptance, and the shadow stuff is all about what has been rejected in the past.  That is why looking at guilty feelings is so valuable and important. 

  Guilt is all about ego: "I'm not the sort of person who would do something like that!!" 

   Well ya did, so ya are. Accept it!!  Then you know yourself better and can be mindful about whether the behavior repeats itself.  It cannot sneak out shadow side because it has been brought into the light and integrated... at least, until the next layer comes along!   
The next opportunity to love and accept another shadow fragment into integration.

  I AM everything I said about other people in this thread. I AM Hitler and Gandhi and Ghengis Khan and... George Bush!! LOL!!  Have I done the things they have done? Well, in small ways, probably yeah.  There are only so many power games, we all play them.  The differences are mostly a matter of degree or size, intensity.  How do you measure that, in non-duality?

  For example, likely nobody here killed millions of Jews, but our western lifestyle is built on cheap consumer goods produced by sweatshop labour in unsafe conditions.  We drive cars that are destroying ecosystems and species, as well as causing illness in millions.  So when an Asian woman dies of lead poisoning from soldering electronic circuit boards or lung cancer from inhaling polyester fluff while sewing a sweatshirt, we all are culpable on some level, we are all her murderers.

   Acceptance, motivates change and denial accomplishes nothing.

    Good intentions. Canada is a trading partner with China; the attitude is, support their business so they have the resources to improve their condition... but will they improve? 

   Thing is, simplification or not, doesn't really matter.  People get it when they want to get it, and if they do not want, they can be remarkably obtuse.  Lead a horse to water... and one thing healers learn, there is a huge difference between someone who wants to be healed, and someone who just wants use their problem  to get attention.  Sometimes people really cling to problems if the are using them to get sympathy, or feel superior... or inferior!, if that is their kink.   

   I accept that people do that, and they are Gods of their own lives and can do what they want... but I prefer watching people grow.  I'm also clear that whether people grow or not, is not up to me.  It is between them and Goddess.

   

On Friday August 24d I started using the affirmation “I know how I cased the bullying and I have stopped doing it.”

On Saturday 25th I had an intense therapeutic session where my therapist told me I kind of reached the bottom of my energy system and then received a gift from the highest being. The same day I noticed myself being kind of upset and worrying for a lot of things to go wrong, in a way that is not normal for me. This continued for a day or two. Then I woke up in the middle of the night, from a vision where I perceived a ball of light and strong fear somewhere in my heart or power chakra region. I perceived how this “ball of fear” radiated light in all directions and how this light created my world.

After that, I have now and then got insights or visions or upcoming emotions regarding how the often very subtle nuances in my thinking create and modify my reality. E.g. on Saturday December 1st I participated in a yogic weekend, where the teacher worked directly on the students’ energy systems. I perceived this very clearly. During the lunch this first day, I had a very subtle and difficult to describe vision of how the subtle nuances in my thinking affected my reality. Later, I have had similar visions, even more subtle and difficult to explain.

On December 17th I had a very intense therapeutic session related to the power chakra. A lot of material was released, and my therapist reported that the power chakra opened up in a great vortex of bringht light reaching far up into the sky. Since then I have felt my energy kind of reaching out and occupying the space around me (the eggshape of the aura), which makes me feel more comfortable and kind of “dressed”.

Now, here are a lot of peaces falling together.

You wrote somewhere that all children are energy vampires. When I was first bullied at the age of six I was starting school with an open and receptive mind. I was passively observing, waiting for what to come. In a different atmosphere I might have flourished, but instead I became passive. I got kind of blocked in a sad, passive mode. (The other kids didn’t dislike me; they just didn’t respect my boundaries.) And this has followed me through my whole life. If I am an energy vampire, I am a passive childlike one. It seems I was somehow, deep inside, partly stuck in that mode.

I have noticed this tendency to passivity in so many ways. I envy people who can walk into a room with a smile and start talking with a lot of energy. Sometimes I can do that if I really set my mind on it, but often I have problems even getting the energy to initiate a conversation, if I am not already inspired from something. On the other hand, when a conversation has started, I can be active enough, although I easily get bored and lose energy. I hesitate from taking new contacts with people I like, expecting others to take the initiative instead. When I am lecturing, I am using the first minutes to kind of establish contact with the audience to get more energy (actually I have been taught to do so on courses). Sometimes, when I am lecturing (although not often), especially when I am in front of a big audience with more than 100 people, I kind of loose all interest and energy and just whish I was somewhere else doing something else instead.

From the above it follows that my main pattern is aloof. When I expose other patterns, it’s only a symptom of my struggle to break this pattern, in an attempt to copy other people’s patterns. If I turned out to be persuasive and was therefore perceived as something else when trying to surrender my main objections to the idea that the victim is the perpetrator, thank you very much! Being persuasive is a very weak point of mine. I am working in a work-place where most successful people are actually politicians â€" experts not on their jobs but on turning black into white and the other way round â€" and I have for many years been a helpless prey to their lies and campaigns. Doing things just to make a good impression on others simply does not feel right and honest to me. I have been occupied with doing a good job instead. This has destroyed my career. However, I wrote that post after a period of intense throat chakra cleansing; normally I am not that persuasive.

The chakra photography made last summer illustrated my basic passivity very well. It showed a lot of bright yellow light at the level of my head (the yellow aura colour symbolized creativity, but was also used for the crown chakra), but there was a dark area between this light and the rest of my body. I was told I had a lot of ideas in my head, which could be turned into reality, but wasn’t yet.

These last years with strong energy activity in my body, I have had energy working from the centre of my upper chest and down my shoulders and arms to my hands (and then also up my head). The arms are often said to be related to taking action in life. Therefore, I believe these energy movements are also related to the passivity-thing.

Today I am continuing to do a lot of power chakra sadhana (nauli (stomach muscle rotation), which I believe is very effective for the power chakra, the boat, the camel and 31 minutes kritan kriya). I feel as if the power chakra is opening up and feeding especially my aura with energy (I feel this most clearly when practicing kritan kriya). I am also working on deciding how to take action more actively in different areas of my life. Maybe I will engage a coach for this (which is also part of my own not yet completed NLP coach education).

  Well, you are certainly due for a breakthrough.  8)

Vyana wrote:
When I am lecturing, I am using the first minutes to kind of establish contact with the audience to get more energy (actually I have been taught to do so on courses). Sometimes, when I am lecturing (although not often), especially when I am in front of a big audience with more than 100 people, I kind of loose all interest and energy and just whish I was somewhere else doing something else instead.


  Some do teach that, and it doesn't really work.  It sets the audience against you.  You have to feed the audience before you can feed *on* the audience.  Give them something, then they give back and rapport is set. Tina Turner does this wonderfully, BTW.  She used to be a victim, too...

  As an actor I was taught to expand my energy to fill the theatre, it brings the audience in to an intimate space and makes the performer appear very charismatic! Theatre is a consensual space, actors are taught to project energy in a way that doesn't work so well in other situations.

  When teaching workshops is about the only time I really turn my energy outward, show up sparkly.

    I want you to scry through time to the opening of the Sweden workshop.  Am I taking or giving energy? Projecting, or just making energy available to people to take some? To accept or decline? 

Blessings...
   

There's a certain vicious circle.
Imagine a carp pond, carps are being fed and are happy.
But scarcity comes up, food supply shortens.
Battling sets in, and crying: crying  at one another,  crying for food( and games).
Effects are null, which "proves", that crys are too low, and battlings amateurish, too "girlish".
Science sets in, then language becomes raped, Hell, originally Goddess-Fire, becomes "hell", for this new reality.

Now, this "entertainment" attracts a lot of more people, whoops i mean carps, so this new hell gets heated up more and more. Nlp contra bare fist, Once Upon a Time in the West: Morton vs. Frank. ...Nlp contra Nlp, giants of weakness fighting about doggy bags.
Just carps.
Yesterday i called Mystress Alexandra the Great, in my mind; for always seeming to act on the allowed limit of c in relative universe.
Alexander and the Gordian Knot, is somewhat liberating, instancing a presence of his own.
Not battling about being entitled to careers, or weeping after my ice cream has fallen in the sand, but taking the perspective of the pond owner. Kill the other kid who battered that ice cream out of my hand: Within myself ..and become adult; kill the careerist who stole my job and other resources: Within myself!
And watch there faces with a grim grin when they run out of "gas".

Sometimes we can get the blues, but then it's good to know, that we love this world after all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE7NtFgfYsE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE7NtFgfYsE&feature=related)

A really great post. Had me to look on a lot of projections I have been sending outwards and have denied or dismissed before... I will try to grab to those before they can leave my head and turn them to me.

Namaste,
Jaakko

Jaakko:

Had me to look on a lot of projections I have been sending outwards and have denied or dismissed before... I will try to grab to those before they can leave my head and turn them to me.

Hi Jaakko, and btw: welcome!!!!

How do you speak Jaakko? My guess 'd be: beginning slowly and toward the end with a "tug"?

Yeah i think, awareness of the projections can lead us to an underlying childish mindset, that maintains them. As long as the mindset remains uncleared the projections are the sanest expression of life, in accordance with basic logic, so it seems a good idea, not to judge oneself for being an "ass".  ;D ;D ;D
Thanx for the comment, and great that Ye found the hub!

here a little serenade (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-mttBtOHXI&NR=1)

Thanks Juergen!  :)

Another issue came to me after thinking about this issue. How about helping? I think I understand that it is a projection to think that someone needs help. But somehow I do get this impulse to help someone e.g. by opening a door for them if they are carrying something heavy or something alike. They do not *need* it, but is there room for *common sense*? Or is this all just big bullshit from my ego to hide itself from me?

I recognise that one of my roles is to be the helper although nowadays I do try to make it point that I offer only help if someone asks for it. But sometimes it just feels right to help even though no words are said between people offering permission/request to help. Also sometimes it just feels hearbreaking to watch your loved one suffer and not to do anything...

Blessings,
Jaakko

Heehee, ok, some more toxic lineage stuff.......

When i make a sentence like: "The Moon is my Guide", then i use a separatistic formula, because today's languages were partly created from a pested mindset, and have at best only one leg in Paradise.
I can make a better attempt by saying: "I'm guided because i'm so much in love with the Moon-Chick that we are as good as One".
Whatsoever, the other pested leg designates resistance and separation:

The serpent who resists against sloughing her skin must be totally at odds with the world, and that's what we usually are. Under that mindset we wage an imagined war against the rest of the world and will likely fantasize about 'Highlander'-stuff('only one will be in the end', 'the chosen one','la singla' etc.)
-->the idea of monopolism, the protestant(called: "american")dream, which goes toward insanity with the conception of what amounts to: "each person a monopolist".

Still we live in a set of parallel worlds: The planet of the apes(resistance, monopolisms, ego) on one side and paradise on the other.
All things have an existance in either world just depending on how we look at them. Take for instance 'La Singla': ain't there a paradise version of Her as well?
The same holds true for 'Help':

On the apes planet, 'help' is a one sided relation, for instance by marching an army in a distant country to help them(becoming mined); the good intention thing, as an excuse for waging the war that has to be, locically(after the decision for resistance is made, which equals declaring war to all reality, to all life).
There has to be an excuse because of the other, the parallel world, The Paradise, where we have the other leg in.
In Paradise, there are other expressions, like: "This is helpful" etc., which describes win/win situations where growth has its good soil. This designs the other version of help, 'empowering help'. The psychological pattern is: "how wonderful it would we, if so and so would happen", the intent is holistic.
I think this is the kind of help you relate to.
Thing is only, that there is a further need for consense to be considered, which can be given explicitly, or may exist implicitly(without words, by tradition, by unwritten law, or even by written law, etc).
'Implicit' is also a case for discernment(and stumbling), missteps are unavoidable. But it's no use, we have to explore here, we cannot be as strict as saying: "No words --> no help". On the other hand, we also cannot mutate to help stalkers. As discernment grows we will be of more use and of more help, but the basis is of course, clearing the separation: that mindset which is at odds with everything.
No matter what others then will put forward against us, we should not judge ourselves for seeking to become clear(although being clear can be a handicap as regards mundane justice; judges-folk, they are (by definition)organized "resistors", smiles).

Between resistance and Goddess's boot-kicks we get into conflicts(Also sometimes it just feels hearbreaking to watch your loved one suffer and not to do anything...); we have free will, but finally no choice.

Onwards!
juergen

But somehow I do get this impulse to help someone e.g. by opening a door for them if they are carrying something heavy or something alike. They do not *need* it, but is there room for *common sense*? Or is this all just big bullshit from my ego to hide itself from me?  

Genuine compassion is spontaneous, random acts of kindness are perfectly OK!

Genuine compassion is spontaneous, random acts of kindness are perfectly OK!

Heehee, spontaneous kindness, thoughtless kindness, fast kindness,  -->much kindness!
Cup's running...
(thoughtless posts, LOL)

juergen